Old discussions about guarantors (Wherefore a Guarantor?)

I wonder what the situation is for Chinese in, say, the U.S. or U.K. with residency but no U.S./U.K. passport. Does anyone know if they’d be able to get a credit card from a bank there?

In Canada, I know for a fact that foreign students who are enrolled full-time at university or even high school can get a credit card as long as they can show proof of income. (In most cases, $$ from Mom & Dad). :stuck_out_tongue: They do not require a personal guarantor, nor details of their parents’ incomes, just a photocopy of their student visa, and their passport. I know, because I helped several Taiwanese high school students get settled in Canada in the mid-90s. I can’t imagine the standards being any more stringent for foreigners actually working in Canada or the US.

I used to work with international students in the UK. I can tell you that as far as students are concerned they can get credit cards and normal fully-operational bank accounts without too much difficulty… debit cards and so on. If there’s credit involved the limit will be small at first, of course.

The banks are no push-over but the point is that, as far as students are concerned, no bank would dare to be known as “the bank that gave international students a hard time.”

It can be more difficult for those who come to work in the UK. But the point is that they need a GOOD REASON to treat a “foreigner” DIFFERENTLY.

Part of the problem is one of legal culture: Taiwanese law is formed by an especially unfortunate combination of influences. One is late 19th century Civil Law thinking in which a person’s “civil status” determines their legal capacity. Add to that Traditional Chinese legal thinking which in civil matters tends towards the idea that what is not expressly permitted is forbidden. This is quite the opposite from an Anglo-American (Common Law) worldview.

The disadvantages and anomolies which affect “foreigners” in Taiwan largely stem from this fact: “foreigners” have just not been on the mental map when it comes to drafting laws and bank policies and so on… and if it’s not an explicit policy to permit something…

Banks and government agencies and so on will always start from the presumption that someone without “the right civil status” legally (and morally?) entitled to absolutely nothing! That’s regardless of how inconvenient it is for us to be treated differently. An argument that such treatment makes life needlessly difficult is often met with total incomprehension.

It’s not just non-citizens who are often disadvantaged this way of thinking, by the way. What about all the crazy paperwork and multiple verifications of documents often needed for no very good reason.

I love Taiwan… but when it comes to “officialdom” you can see this every day of the year!

I expected to be asked for a guarantor by the Taiwanese banks, but I got really pi**ed off when the ABN AMRO also expected me to produce a Taiwanese guarantor.

Hell, they are a Dutch bank, and I am a Dutch citizen (Dutch passport and Taiwan ARC), and I am definitely not straight off the plane, my Taiwan Tax Statements should have proved that.

They did say they could give me a credit card if I deposited NT$ 300,000 into a savings account, but I would not be able to access my Taiwan based savings account from the Netherlands!

This guarantor thing really sux

When I was in the UK (as a foreigner on a two-year work visa) I got a credit card and I’m sure it wasn’t because I was white. That is to say, if I was Taiwanese I could have got one too. I had no security, and no permanent address in the UK. All I had was my job at a temp agency. Credit limit 1500 UK pounds.

Actually, as long as you’re not a foreigner it’s extremely easy to get a credit card in Taiwan. That’s why some universities have started banning banks from marketing credit cards on their campuses. It’s not at all unusual for students to graduate with seven credit cards and 200K owing on them.

[color=blue]Success! [/color]
:smiley:
Standard Chartered will allow foreigners to apply for credit cards without a Taiwan guarantor, as will American Express, as I mentioned earlier. You need to show past local tax records, bankbook records, ARC, passport, and have a level of income that they deem sufficient, but the important thing is that you can apply on your own merit, building a credit history in Taiwan, without having to go through a local spouse or your employer/company. :sunglasses: :mrgreen:

Now, were you lucky?
Did they give you one?

Yeah, they gave me a Visa Gold card six months ago, no problem. I even got a pre-approved application for a platinum card (Visa or MasterCard) last week. (That one comes with a $4,000NT annual fee, though! :shock: ) I haven’t decided if I’ll get it or not. The insurance you get when you buy tickets with a platinum card is pretty phenomenal, though.

In the USA, one must be a “green card” alien to obtain credit like any citizen. It becomes more difficult for those with non-immigrant work visas (H-1B) in even getting standard home mortgages or credit cards. However, a secured credit card and larger downpayments on real estate is feasible.

'Fraid that’s not accurate - I know two Taiwanese who got US cards - one was a student on a one year F1 (this was last year) and the other a tourist on holiday. The student did a runner on about $35 owed on the card.

The guarantor restrictions seem to be straight out of the dark ages, it’s just another example of the extension of the clan system into government affairs.

As for credit cards not all countries give them out so freely as in North America. In some countries in Europe it is still quite difficult to get a credit card. When I worked previously in the UK I had to get many letters from the company I worked for to open a bank account their (I’m an Irish citizen). The situation is very similar in America and Australia. You think they’ll give me a credit card without a stellar credit reference in any of these countries and me straight off the plane- no way. In many ways American policy towards foreigners is even more frustrating than Taiwan. At least I don’t have to pay legal fees amounting to thousands of dollars to work here. Of course this doesn’t mean Taiwanese policy is good, I’m merely comparing.

You’ve got to be smart, failing that just be a pain in the ass. If at first you don’t succeed try, try again. I have two bank accounts yet I had no ARC previously. I just hopped around the banks until I met officials that didn’t know the rules too good. In fact, as some people have mentioned previously that persistence is one tactic in Taiwan that will get you anywhere. Stand around being awkward long enough or go through the officials one by one and they’ll usually give in to you. However it is always better to start with humility and is a preferable way to get things done.

I tried to apply for a credit card with the China Trust Bank: later received a letter from them in which they
suggested to apply for a Visa debit card
instead.
For this purpose I had to open an account with them. I did that. Two weeks later I received another letter from the bank stating that I am not eligible for their Visa debit card…
I have an ARC, legal employment and enough money in a bank…
Is this situation an exception, or it’s a normal treatment of foreigners in
Taiwan? Is there any other bank that issues credit /debit cards to foreigners without
a local guarantor?

I have a card issued here by Citibank, can’t remember if I needed a local guarantor, I seem to recall I didn’t.

Buying my last car, I also got an auto loan from them. At that time (2 years ago) they were the only bank who would offer this loan to a laowai, though it might be different now.

Even with a local guarantor u won’t be able to get a Visa debit card as the law is that the applicant must have an ID card (says so right on the application). Good luck getting anything here - I was unable to get either credit card or debit card. I tried Citibank, SinoPac, and Standard Chartered.

The law? What law are you referring to?

The law according to Visa International. I suggest that if you don’t have a foreign issued Visa/whatever then try opening an offshore account and get a debit card from them - Channel Islands a good place to look.

I looked into offshore bank accounts years ago, and all the big banks based on the channel islands required a major deposit to open an account. They also had minimum balances that had to be maintained. Not really a good solution for the credit card / debit card problem.

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. I have an American Express Gold Card locally, and a Standard Chartered VISA Gold Card, and neither one of them required a local guarantor. I believe that American Express is the easiest to get. Another English teacher I know got her card at the same time as me, and her “official” income probably didn’t exceed an average of 60k/month. I used my (less than 1 year) credit history at American Express, and my ancient VISA credit history in Canada to leapfrog to a Standard Chartered VISA Gold Card. They were also more demanding in looking at my employment record, income tax statement for the last several years, etc. Recently they offered me a Platinum card, but I declined because of higher annual fees. :sunglasses:

Yes, my bank requires that I open an account with a balance of US$7,500 or the equiv. in Euro or Sterling in order to open an account + get a debit Visa card. I can only spend the money I have in the account in excess of
the $7500. The only thing that bothers me is that the US$7,500 is tied to an instant access account rather than a term deposit account ( cause since I can’t actually touch or spend that money I don’t see any reason I can’t get a better interest rate at the very least ). That was my solution to the credit card problem. I only wanted it to be able to buy stuff on the web. I have no interest in the spend now, pay later economics of the Bourgeoisie.

I kept my bank, AMEX, VISA and Mastercard accounts from when I lived in OZ. They cannot seem to give a stuff whether I am working or not - and keep offering me additional available credit (Now $A60,000 total for VISA and M/C). I even used my OZ VISA card to “buy” a car in Taiwan - and went back next day with the cash and the car dealer cancelled the VISA charge. I guess while I pay each month they are happy - and they know that I am living in another country.

It is extremely convienient to keep all this stuff in OZ - mainly for the great internet banking service.

I also have joint (is this different to “co” ??) account with my wife at HSBC in Taiwan. Their internet banking is a little tedious (their security system is soooooo slow), but I never have had the problems about using cards in overseas ATM’s that other people have complained of here.