This isn’t about Warmbier (RIP), who admittedly was very dumb. Warmbier is just the pretext for ramping up pressure on NK.
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This is being dumb, flipping of mao in Tianaman square. But at least I knew where the US embassy was and PRC has diplomatic relations and communicates with the US. I would never do this to a statue of kim il sung in NK…the picture I did was dumb, but funny. Going to NK, and regardless of if he did steal or not is suicidal. Also, all CCTV images look grainy. IDK why in 2017 i’ve still not seen a CCTV in HD. But how come of the hundreds of US citizens that go to NK a year, he gets picked? And for stealing propaganda? I feel like they could have came up with something much better, again not that his punishment is fair. I still think someone who vacations in NK for fun is probably someone who is stupid enough to do this.
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It was a weird case as most US citizens so far have been arrested in NK for Bible thumping: bringing in Bibles, trying to convert the natives, or some humanitarian task, like helping refugees cross borders. That is a calculated risk, a willing choice, people who would die for their ideals.
That this guy was picked at all is the worst luck of all, not as simple as “don’t go there” or even “do not break the law”. It is hard to break the law where there is none, but rather just the whim of the system. because calling NK as being under the thumb of a madman is also simplistic. These kind of regimes do have a central figure, but he is there prompted up by a whole system, even international, that not only allows but abeits this monstruosity to exist in the 21st century.
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Going to NK and NOT stealing anything is not suicidal. Thousands of people do it every year. When I lived in Sourh Korea, a few of my friends did and came back fine (I didn’t, since I don’t want to support the regime with tourist dollars). What happened to Otto was something new. It was an escalation. Usually just Bible thumpers were detained.
They probably thought it would make a more believable story? And ironically it worked. Plenty of Americans are blaming him for being stupid and “privileged”.
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The AP would have us believe this is a tour company that thinks it’s funny to hide a customer’s passport as a prank. At least the founder seems to be honest about his alcoholism, though he sees it as more of a help than a hindrance. 
I blame the Brits. Because a Cockney-London Trotskyite got drunk with a higher Korean official by happenstance, he was able to open Young Pioneer tours, which seems to favour drinking on tours with a bunch of novices, many travelling for the first time. This incident was waiting to happen.
Go ahead. Blame the victim. Time to shut this museum of Stalinism down
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I don`t disagree BeachBoy…would love go see harsher approaches. I still think the tour company is partly to blame though
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
I just think of stupid shit I did at the same age. When I was his age, I climbed on top of the statue of Saint Wenceslas in Prague and mooned everyone. I got a ticket, which I paid on the spot. Stealing a hotel sign is such small shit. The difference being North Korea is not Czech Republic.
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There’s no reliable evidence he stole a hotel sign.
I do blame the victim
Exactly l, you need to have situation awareness even when you’re being a dumbass.
I suppose there’s not exactly evidence he didn’t. That’s really the point. NK isn’t exactly the place where you get a fair and balanced trial especially when they all grew up literally taught to hate you. Don’t go to North Korea for vacation. I would feel bad if he went for humanitarian reasons, but he spent money to prop up a regime for his amusement. And now there’s a huge international incident and he’s used as a reason for more conflict.
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I went to North Korea in 2012. Before you depart, the tour organizer holds a mandatory meeting where, among other things, the participants learn what you can and can’t do while there, so they will be fully aware of the realities of what they are about to get into. “Don’t be that guy,” the speaker said at the end of the meeting.
Warmbier, like every other visitor, was forewarned. Tragically, he decided to be “that guy” by doing something stupid that ended up costing him his freedom, his health, and ultimately his life. North Korea, of all places, is not a place where you flout the law or pooh-pooh authority. As for who to blame, I blame both Warmbier for breaking the law in a place he knew metes out severe penalties, and North Korea for their harsh sentence and awful mistreatment of him, which is a result of being a soulless, evil dictatorship with no regard for justice, freedom or life.
I’m not going to say “Don’t go to North Korea.” I’m going to say “If you go, don’t be stupid.” By the way, the tour operator I went with (different from the one Warmbier went with) actually has a collection of propaganda posters that they acquired legally and that anyone can buy at their office in Beijing.
I’m also not going to say Warmbier deserved his fate, because he most certainly didn’t. The punishment was unthinkably severe for what was a petty theft.
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Same for my friend who went to North Korea around the same time as @Chris did. Although my friend is adventurous and travels to places I personally wouldn’t (Afghanistan, Iran, and Somalia being some of them), he said they were repeatedly told what was expected of them. My friend understood that you must follow the local rules–no matter how bizarre or draconian they might seem.
Today I read this: "North Korea officials claimed the 22-year-old, who is believed to have been in a comatose state for more than a year, contracted botulism and fell into a coma after being given a sleeping bill. However, doctors have rejected such an explanation and his parents also have refuted those claims – instead vowing that their son was ‘brutalized and terrorized’ while imprisoned."
Yet the same report says “no autopsy was performed, due to his family’s wishes.”
Huh? If my child had been held in a crazy place like North Korea for almost two years, then died mysteriously upon release, I sure as hell would want to know why.
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I mean I guess I can understand that maybe they find it easier to blame The easier “truth” then what actually happened.
This seems relevant
Going to say he deserved it is too far, but I’m sure he was like a lot of dumb kids that came to her classes. I was a dumb kid in college who was flipping off mao in tiannaman square. College kids are dumb. I’m sure some of my teachers at some point wished I walked out of class and got ran over by a bus.
But she’s also dumb for not keeping her Facebook private posting these thoughts.