I would imagine the answer is yes, but then that leads to a secondary question, to what extent does the Bull feel pain, and that I suspect is an unknown quantity. Hence my question as to where is the prrof that they feel pain.
Please do not compare to what we as humans might feel, the two cannot be compared, we are not Bulls, and they are nor humans.[/quote]
An opinion born of convenience, methinks. Traveller, it is impossible for anyone to prove that you feel pain. By your ‘logic’, anyone can throw you in an arena and hack away. We could see the gestures of pain and the terror in your eyes, the blood spurting from your injuries, through your nose and out your mouth, but we can never truly know that you are experiencing the same pain and suffering that we know we would endure if we were on the receiving end - so we just carry on?
That’s a very brave argument you are making.
And if we cannot compare to the pain that humans might feel, there is nothing to discuss, surely.
Man has a tendency to always err on the side of convenience in these matters. We are animals. Bulls are animals. Our anatomies are very similar: we each have limbs, eyes, ears, blood, a heart, arteries, lungs, a brain, spinal cord, etc. Because non-human animals are so similar to humans, we use them to test drugs and cosmetics that will be for human use - we say they are similar enough for that, but not similar enough to experience the same pain that our bodies allow us to feel.
To believe that the basic survival tool, pain, is absent in all but humans is an arrogant and ignorant approach to the argument. If an animal can’t feel pain, it will not move away from fire or a sharp object sticking in its side. Loretta has already argued that bulls do indeed feel pain and move away from the source, and thus will not be used for torture later.
The bulls who ‘make it’ to the ring are those I compared to a woman protecting her children - they possess the strength and willpower to endure great amounts of suffering in order to survive or protect. Whether they are aware of the pain at the time of battle is irrelevent, as adrenalin is temporary.
The fact that we hack away at living animals as a form of entertainment says more about our insecurities than anything else. It is no coincindence that bullfighting is popular in traditionally ‘macho’ societies. It helps weak people to feel powerful - they have witnessed man defeating the great beast. The problem is, they cheated.
Traveller, I don’t think you really have an argument. I think you are here to defend your drinking buddy and nothing more. If he was here defending the bull’s rights, I suspect you would be doing the same.
Respond to some of the arguments presented here in defence of the bull. That is what we would all like to see, rather than lame attempts at logic.