Palestinians Call for Religious Moderation: I am in Tears

I don’t know whether to die laughing or die crying…

[quote]Article published Jun 29, 2007
West Bank activists push peace, moderation

June 29, 2007
By Joshua Mitnick - RAMALLAH, West Bank — Some Palestinian political activists are encouraging the secular Fatah party, which controls the West Bank, to combat radical Islam by incorporating religious teachings that emphasize peace and moderation. Sheik Sa’d Sharaf said he is pushing Fatah leaders to enlist religious figures to openly debate the violent interpretation of the Koran as espoused by the rival Hamas militia. "The prophet Muhammad says, ‘Don’t kill those who don’t use weapons against you. Don’t kill a woman. Don’t kill a baby,’ " he said. Sheik Sharaf, who preaches in mosques, lectures at a junior college and hosts a television program from the West Bank city of Nablus, said the key to Islamist group Hamas’ success has been its ability to present itself as representing the one authentic version of Islam. Hamas gunmen this month drove the Fatah security forces loyal to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas out of the Gaza Strip during six days of fighting. Hamas was also behind dozens of suicide bombings that killed hundreds of Israelis, including women and children, at the height of the Palestinian uprising, or intifada.
Sheik Sharaf described Hamas’ advocacy of violence as a “cynical” policy that prompts harsher responses from Israel, causing unnecessary suffering. Another prominent Palestinian, Mohammed Dajani, has established a religious movement called Wasatia — a term from the Koran meaning “centrism,” “balance” or “moderation.” Unlike Sheik Sharaf, who hopes to moderate Fatah with religion, Mr. Dajani believes that a new political party is needed to fill a vacuum between Fatah and Hamas. Although a secular party, Fatah militants are as deadly as Hamas. A radical offshoot of the group, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, has also boasted of dozens of suicide bombings inside Israel. “We are undergoing a social, religious, economic and a political crisis,” said Mr. Dajani, who also teaches political science at Al Quds University in East Jerusalem. “We feel that this crisis will not be addressed without the rise of a new party — a middle-ground Islamic party supporting tolerance and calling for dialogue. This is the only solution.” Alongside quotes from the Jewish holy book, the Talmud, and the New Testament, the Wasatia Web site quotes the Koran as saying “we have created you a midground nation” and ascribes to Muhammad the saying: “The best way to run affairs is moderation.” Mr. Dajani said he wants to change pre-school and elementary school curriculum teachings on “jihad,” which he says extol violence and discourage interfaith coexistence.
“Religion is being hijacked and misrepresented,” he said in a recent interview with a Jewish peace group. “Palestinian society is moderate, but being pushed to extremism and fundamentalism. This is not the Islam we were raised on.” Sheik Sharaf, who wants to reform Fatah by creating a religious branch within the organization, acknowledges that politicians in the Fatah movement have largely ignored efforts. “[Fatah] doesn’t understand the danger. They are ignorant in this,” he said.
But he also believes that in the two weeks since Hamas’ takeover of Gaza and their public executions of Fatah members, more Palestinians have become disillusioned by the Hamas brand of Islam. “I want to prevent the misleading of the people,” he said. [/quote]

Oh gosh. Forty years of violence against Jews and now when Hamas turns on Fatah, suddenly everyone is concerned about moderation? religious tolerance? haha Is this TOO RICH or what?

Either will do, just as long as the outcome’s the same. :raspberry:

HG

Go away damn you… haha

Fred

An offshoot of a party is not part of that party, so how do the actions of an offshoot reflect on the party off which it shot?

I am merely laughing at the sudden calls for restraint. Humor me. It’s Friday. Do I really think that it is funny? Of course not, but I cannot help but think… gee for any group to have this kind of problem coming, who better than the Palestinians…

I for one applaud the sheik’s efforts. I’d like to see more of that. I don’t find anything particularly ironic, unless he was a long-standing, terrorism-supporting member of Fatah and has suddenly changed his tune. The article you posted doesn’t portray him as such.

There have always been more moderate elements among the Palestinians, but their voices are drowned out by the calls for jihad and destruction of the Jews. Let’s hope men like him start to gain some influence.

Yes, let’s hope that after oh 40 to 60 years that suddenly they see the light and yes you are absolutely right there is NOTHING ironic about that now that they are the ones being attacked by extremists within their midst. Nothing whatsoever.

I meant regarding this man in particular. I don’t think Fatah in general is calling for moderation. In fact Fatah is criticized in the article for being equally as extreme as Hamas. He is apparently calling on Fatah to open a moderate religious branch.

That region will probably be the first to bathe in a nuclear fire.

[quote=“fred smith”]
Forty years of violence against Jews…[/quote]

Fred…Fred pugnacious Fred
You have neatly omitted the
O
word….
O
ccupation…40 years of
o
ccupation ignored…how convenient… does it make it easier to justify your world view?

And where is the article from Fred?..do tell…

Fred, I detect anti-semitism behind your crocodile tears. I can understand if you dismiss individuals or organizations as being inherently corrupt and unworthy but you seem to dismiss an entire ethnic group of Middle Eastern, Semitic people as being incapable of anything more than subhuman motivations and aspirations.

I will just bet that you do Spook. I’ll just bet that you do…

Want me to post the results of polls that show again and again and again and again the support among the Palestinian people in general for violence against Jews or Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip? for terrorism? Christian churches as well are constantly attack in the West Bank and Gaza Strip? Why? Are the Christians all of whom are Arabs part of the Jewish er Israeli occupation. Oh yes, and that word… occupation… was there no violence between 1949 and 1967? Or there was but then… the occupation would not be responsible for the hatred, intolerance and violence… and the fact that most of the West Bank and Gaza would have been granted self-rule under Oslo… would have made the Palestinians happy, but it did not … so what are we to make of this…

My sense of irony is this. The Palestinians either directly or tacitly have supported, engaged in and condoned terrorism and violence to further political aims. Now, when the exact same methods are being used by their own people against themselves, suddenly there are calls for religious tolerance and pluralism and understanding and all this. Where were those voices in the past 40 years? That is the irony. I would laugh just as loudly if the Russians started protesting the excessive consumption of vodka among the Poles and Norwegians or the Mexicans if they demanded that their government build a fence along their southern border to keep out unwanted immigrants.

I will just bet that you do Spook. I’ll just bet that you do…

Want me to post the results of polls that show again and again and again and again the support among the Palestinian people in general for violence against Jews or Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip? for terrorism? Christian churches as well are constantly attack in the West Bank and Gaza Strip? Why? Are the Christians all of whom are Arabs part of the Jewish er Israeli occupation. Oh yes, and that word… occupation… was there no violence between 1949 and 1967? Or there was but then… the occupation would not be responsible for the hatred, intolerance and violence… and the fact that most of the West Bank and Gaza would have been granted self-rule under Oslo… would have made the Palestinians happy, but it did not … so what are we to make of this…

My sense of irony is this. The Palestinians either directly or tacitly have supported, engaged in and condoned terrorism and violence to further political aims. Now, when the exact same methods are being used by their own people against themselves, suddenly there are calls for religious tolerance and pluralism and understanding and all this. Where were those voices in the past 40 years? That is the irony. I would laugh just as loudly if the Russians started protesting the excessive consumption of vodka among the Poles and Norwegians or the Mexicans if they demanded that their government build a fence along their southern border to keep out unwanted immigrants.[/quote]

Do you believe that the Palestinian people are inherently violent, crafty and untrustworthy?

Not at all.

But I do believe that their misguided behavior and policies have been MOSTLY (not entirely) to blame for their current problems. I would likewise point to the Germans and say they suffered a lot from 1870 to 1945 because of their misguided policies. The solution is and was not to sympathize but to punish until the appropriate lesson had been learned. The Germans eventually did learn that lesson and thank God for that, the Russians may or may not have, and the Iranians seem about to.

Too much Champagne for Fourth of July yesterday so not too interested in going down these well-trod paths yet again. Have a nice Monday. Besides, I am off to prison… but just to visit. haha

The Democrats and their minions have not managed to make this a permanent state of affairs for me yet… Hope they do not learn from their misguided policies to actually come close to “achieving” and end to their problems and suffering. Where would that put me?

[quote=“fred smith”]
Too much Champagne for Fourth of July yesterday so not too interested in going down these well-trod paths yet again. [/quote]

Must be too much champagne indeed. It’s not even Fourth of July yet.

but then again in Wonderland, the rules are different. maybe the calendar is too.

Um, I think there has been at least one region bathed in nuclear fires of the ‘war’ kind, which would be two cities in southern Japan.

And I guess you should also include the twenty or so places around the world that have seen other atmospheric bursts during testing, starting with Nevada, Woomera, Kiril, Bikini, Marshall, etc… Underground testing doesn’t really fit your description.

But you may well be right in suggesting that the Middle East may be the location of the next people to use a nuclear weapon. The question is, which people? And will they use the bomb in the Middle East or somewhere else like NY or London? This is why the Iranians are dangerous, not to mention rogue elements in the pakistan secret service (and who knows how rogue they really are, with a deepseated fundamentalist streak in the SIS, as seen in their assistance to the Taliban, which is probably on-going despite the loud protestations and border troop movements initiated by Musharraf).

Not at all.

But I do believe that their misguided behavior and policies have been MOSTLY (not entirely) to blame for their current problems. I would likewise point to the Germans and say they suffered a lot from 1870 to 1945 because of their misguided policies. The solution is and was not to sympathize but to punish until the appropriate lesson had been learned. The Germans eventually did learn that lesson and thank God for that, the Russians may or may not have, and the Iranians seem about to.

Too much Champagne for Fourth of July yesterday so not too interested in going down these well-trod paths yet again. Have a nice Monday. Besides, I am off to prison… but just to visit. haha

The Democrats and their minions have not managed to make this a permanent state of affairs for me yet… Hope they do not learn from their misguided policies to actually come close to “achieving” and end to their problems and suffering. Where would that put me?[/quote]

It’s good to know that you’re not operating from some poisoned premise about inherent depravity. There’s hope yet for a rational outcome. I can see, though, why you wouldn’t want to continue discussing how an entire people – men, women and children – can be legitimately ‘punished’ for anything by a democratic nation by depriving them of statehood, passports, freedom of movement, self-government and just about every other civil right you can think of. It’s hard to imagine how you would be able to hold up your end of such a discussion for very long without ending up looking like some sort of closet fascist.

The man described in the original article is on to the answer and so his motives should be questioned, his timing ridiculed etc. There is tremendous insight and inspiration to be gained from such activity and I congratulate fred on his efforts to make a meaningful contribution to the discussion, pointing out once again the cynicism that so often lays at the heart of irony. Bravo fred. It should be noted as well that while this is not quite as enjoyable as canoeing there “is” a rhythm that develops that is reminiscent of little waves lapping against the gunnel etc.

One person is asking for moderation in a “nation” of millions. It’s not as if that guy is the first person ever in 50 years in Palestine to ask for moderation. Maybe it’s a first for the Smithee given the kind of information he looks at.

Hamas’ stance towards Israel is violence, but one might say it’s violence in response to violence. Why is the Smithee so shocked?

Smithee somehow reasons that just because the region has a violent past, therefore, everyone is violent-minded.

Basically, Hamas = violent, Palestine = violent, ergo every man, woman, and child in Palestine is violent and wants to destroy Israel.

Mistakes were made on both sides when the European Jewry came to Palestine, and the Brits left. But many Arabs lost their homes. Did every single one of those people want violence?

Nice logic in Wonderland. No wonder you’ve lost nearly all your credibility in Forumosa.

:laughing: Shouldn’t that be “on” forumosa? Forumosa is a pretty good size, at least as big as Australia and nobody, no hang on, I’m mixed up again… Shouldn’t that be “on” forumosa, forumosa is hardly as big as green island really, comparatively speaking I mean, oh never mind…