Does someone know if that Pan-Blue 319 Shooting Committee has the potential power to falsely accuse President Chen of faking the shooting and then go ahead with impeaching/imprisoning the president? The way I read it, they have absolute power and are above the laws and constitution.
Could they actually get away with this political sham and remove President Chen from office, imprisoning him in the process?
Is this the coming of a Taiwan civil war?
I believe to committee is compose of individuals from both the pan-Green and pan-Blue side.
I believe CSB and pan-Green vigorous opposition to the formation of any independent investigation committee for the past 6 months are making the general public wonder about 319 incident in a new light.
The greens have chosen to not appoint anyone to the committee, I saw in the papers today, so their seats will be left vacant. Seems to me they could do more good from inside the thing than outside, but I also guess they’re planning to fight whatever it does, and having their own people on it would make that inconvenient at best.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
I believe CSB and pan-Green vigorous opposition to the formation of any independent investigation committee for the past 6 months are making the general public wonder about 319 incident in a new light.[/quote]
Any particular evidence for that assertion, AC?
if you are planning to challenge the constitutionality of, and therefore, the legitimacy of the committee, it wouldn’t make much sense to have anyone from your own camp participate in it. to participate in it is to implicitly give it legitimacy.
this is obviously a committee with a clear political agenda, initiated and pushed through the legislature by hook and by crook by the sworn political enemies of the current administration. no pan-green in his/her right mind would go anywhere near it, lest he/she be tainted by the laughably predictable conclusion that this committee will come to if it is unleashed on the taiwanese political scene.
CSB and his people are doing the right thing by challenging the constitutionality of it, by challenging the very legitimacy of the committee to even exist. but then again, they don’t have much choice. not only is it the right thing to do, it’s pretty much the only option for them.
i think that this “committee” is something that is wanted by the majority of PAN-BLUES, but i do not believe it is something that is wanted by the majority of TAIWANESE. it reeks of political bias, and it is an agenda-driven, political witch-hunt that is short on evidence and reason, thinly-veiled and condescendingly presented to the public as a “truth-finding” body. how stupid do they think taiwanese are?
this is not something that was done because it is right and just - this is something that is concocted because of spite, desperation, and just because they “can.”
[quote=“ac_dropout”]I believe CSB and pan-Green vigorous opposition to the formation of any independent investigation committee for the past 6 months are making the general public wonder about 319 incident in a new light.[/quote]Muahahahah…YOU WISH! Luckily all it is doing is making the Pro-China Pan-Blues look bad.
Anyway care to comment on whether or not this unconstitutional lynch-mob will get away with their chicanery?
pretty ballsy of the blue camp to come up with this ploy. it really is making the most of what they have - using their majority in the legislature to bestow upon themselves the powers that belong to the judiciary - all to make a criminal investigation out of a poltical dispute. very ballsy indeed.
and then they (the PFP) make nominal concessions in their statute to addess the public’s concerns. how disingenuous. i wonder if overstepping the boundaries of their legally-afforded powers is serving the public’s concerns. in this day and age in taiwan, do they truly expect to be given a blank check of power by the government to be cashed at the expense of their political rival? do they truly expect that the public would let them legislate themselves into absolute power in this case?
for the legislature to make laws that give themselves more power than the constitution that they have sworn to uphold gives them is simply unacceptable.
my rant notwithstanding, i wonder why chen bothered asking the opinion of a visiting american law professor on this matter (taipei times 10/6/04). just to make a point i guess.
If CSB didn’t fake his own assassination to gain office, pan-Blue would not have to resort to this.
The same reason why 4th rate diplomats from the AIT are on TV news all the time. The same reason why VP Lu begged Bushie Zhong Tong to call her.
In the sad world of Taidu, only the image USA can validate their objective. Even if it is a visiting law professor from a C rank law school here on a sex stop before going to Thailand.
If CSB didn’t fake his own assassination to gain office, [/quote]
Ahem. For the 1,245,043rd time, evidence?
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
In the sad world of Taidu, only the image USA can validate their objective.[/quote]
Fair enough, but I guess you don’t watch or read much of the mainland media. It seems as though every policy, project or product in the PRC has to be praised or supported in public by a foreigner to “prove” that it’s legitimate. They of course especially love to get an American face next to whatever it is they’re trying to pawn off on everyone. They even do it with the one China “principle.” In PRC newspapers, the US government is described as “supporting” the one China “principle.” I don’t believe that in all of the 25 years of official US-China relations the US government has ever used the word “support” in English or Chinese, nor have they used the word “principle” when referring to anything related to “one China.” We follow/have a one China policy. There’s no fucking principle in it, and we don’t support shit when it comes to “one China.” Don’t believe otherwise for one second.
Carson71 wrote:
ac-dropout replied:
You know ac, I was beginning to think that you had at least a couple of neurons firing in that little Chinese-at-large in the U.S. brain, but this hammers down the last nail in your coffin of silliness.
Do you, allegedly a university graduate with TWO degrees, actually believe what you wrote above? Come clean
Wolf,
3 degrees, but who’s counting.
Give me a poetic license to retort to half bake comments with my own half bake comments.
Taiwan politics and hard evidence?
If that was the case there would be nothing to discuss on the political forum. Black gold would not be an issue, because even after all the reforms no one can prove anything. CSB allegation of KMT involvement in his food poisoning and his wifes assualt will never be proven. CSB faked assassination will never be proven.
This Taiwan we are talking about, might as well ask people to obey traffic laws, than asking politicians to come clean.
Jive,
Ahem for the 1,245,044th time, let the unconstitutional 319 special committe do their job.
Yes I saw that in the autumn moon festival news as well. Some American dude making an innane comment on the holiday, while his ever so shy Chinese girlfriend wanted to run away from the camera.
That’s nice, but PRC just doesn’t want anyone to support Taidu.
Don’t tell me you’re conspiring with Longhair and Thatcher’s son to overthrow the “One China” in HK now.
The bill KMT/PFP passed for the 319 Special Committee is so outragous that it is on the same level as the martial law. The Pan-Blues might as well make it simple and just declare Lien the president (opps, one of their politician already did that during the 320-327 protests).
How the heck can they pass a law that declare itself (the commitee) to be above every other laws, or not bound by any laws at all? These lawmakers must be some real idiots. Oh well, who cares, let them go play with themselves if that rocks their boat. Just don’t expect the government to fund or obey the committee. 
it’s clear that the blue camp will push ahead with the committee (as they have been doing) despite “public concerns” and the veto/challenge from the executive yuan. not surprising really, because it just further underscores the fact that this committee’s out for political vengeance, not for “justice” or “truth-finding.”
let’s say hypothetically that chen did stage the assassination attempt, and the blues (with ingenious supporters who have three, count 'em, THREE degrees :bravo: ) were somehow the only people with the insight and psychic ability to know this, and they felt it was their sacred duty to inform the ignorant masses of this charade. it still doesn’t change the fact that they, as the accusers, bear the burden of providing proof for their allegations. thus far they have not and could not. and assuming they did find plausible evidence - then what? to pursue criminal proceedings, they would still have to proceed based on law.
the point is, even if the blues had a valid beef with chen, they still have to proceed within the framework of the constitution. they can’t say, “well we KNOW he’s guilty, so we should have the right to use ANY means, legal or not, to try to obtain evidence.” you cannot proceed with a the-ends-justify-the-means mentality in a lawful society. their entire approach makes them WRONG right off the bat, regardless of whether they even have a valid case against chen or not (which i believe they do not).
try as they may, i think this committee will not get very far. to function as it is intended to (like a CKS-era martial law tribunal) and to wield the power they tried to give themselves, they need the cooperation of the executive yuan, the judiciary, and law enforcement, etc. they will not get it. especially not while the executive yuan has a challenge pending with the courts. this whole ploy will fizzle out as quickly as it came on. and after december, the blues will not have the legislative majority to pull this kind of BS again.
And once again it is illustrated why the ROC government is dysfunctional as PRC zip pass us in all aspect of life.
Even the mere act of investigating the 319 shooting is no longer about seeking the truth, but grinds to a halt as Taidu interest on the island pushes along, ignoring any process, and making up rules to suit their needs. Much like the early days of the CCP.
So have the Taidu people decided when the Taiwan is going to have our cultural revolution to destroy all Chinese culture on the island. And have our Great Leap forward to compete against the PRC. Or has it already begun.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]And once again it is illustrated why the ROC government is dysfunctional as PRC zip pass us in all aspect of life.
Even the mere act of investigating the 319 shooting is no longer about seeking the truth, but grinds to a halt as Taidu interest on the island pushes along, ignoring any process, and making up rules to suit their needs. Much like the early days of the CCP.
So have the Taidu people decided when the Taiwan is going to have our cultural revolution to destroy all Chinese culture on the island. And have our Great Leap forward to compete against the PRC. Or has it already begun.[/quote]
WTF are you babbling about? post again when you have a point.
Just reflecting the same nonsense you are. When you have a point I’ll have one as well. Post pan-Green nonsense and I’ll post pan-Blue nonsense.
ac_drivel is full of shit as usual.
Just ignore him, and we could have a serious discussion of the topic.
Brian
How can anyone pass a law stating that a special committee is not restricted by any laws in the coutry, to be above all government instutitions and not prosecutable by the judiciary system, able to overstep the boundaries of the constitutional division of power and destroy the checks and balances of the government, able to pass it’s own budget spending regardless of limits without anyone else’s approval, able to nullify every basic consitutional rights of whoever that is being questioned or investigated by them, plus limiting anyone’s freedom of traveling including the President, then can act as or above the judge to overthrow the court’s ruling?
So which side is making up rules to suit their needs? Under the normal legislative spirit, you can not pass a law specifically targeting a singular person or incident, then dissolve the law once the political agenda is achived. The laws they pass must be general and well design enough to be applicable for future use. If laws like this special committee is ok, what then, when the same types are applied back to the KMT once they loose majority.
That’s what I called ignoring processes and making up rules, yes, by the KMT/PFP coalitiion. Remeber, their political leader has yet to say that they will obey the court’s ruling regarding the election results. They repeatily make statements such as if they loose then the court is unfair. They also know that the grand justices will declare the special committee to be uncoonsititutional, therefore are already blackmailing the Judiciary System. That’s what I call a perfect example of not wanting to obey the democratic process and the judiciary system. What a bunch of loosers.
I failed to see what point you had ever made from your posts except hollow babbling without any gounds of logic, fact, or evidence. As carson has pointed out, the Pan-Blue majority Legislative Yuan had legislated and voted into giving themselves a blank check of absolute power, overstepping the constitutional division of the government system. You can try to dispute carson’s assertion regarding the committee, but you did not, because you could not. So instead of disputing, the only thing you could do was choose to ignore what carson has pointed out then just replied back to him that the pan-Blue resorted to this only because Chen faked his own assassination to gain office.
Basically, following the logic of discussion, your had already admitted to carson’s point that the committee violates consitution. How then, can you come back by saying that carson is posting nonsenses when you’re not even disputing what he has said? How then, can you come back by saying that the Pan-Green is making up rules to suit their needs when it is the blue camp caucuses whom blatantly passed a bill that violats the consitution? Can we say contradictions?
ac-dropout wrote:
I’ll give you the third degree…