Pan-Blue Thinking (Help us to understand)

[Hobart]

I want to try to understand the Blues. One of them here said he is here to try to convert us Greens to create more Sisy Chen’s.

I want to give you Blues the benefit of the doubt so please help me to understand the following. Some of my questions may be considered loaded or over the top, please don’t feel insulted, just use it as a chance to clear things up. Again please don’t be offended or look to try to score a few points by making nasty comments. I just want to understand your thinking.

1. Why do you want to unify Taiwan with China?
2. Do you feel closer or have more in common with some DPP BSR from Kaohsiung or some nice PRC citizens from Shanghai, i.e, who would you think of as your brother.
3. If there was a war and CCP were invading Taiwan would you be happy or sad?
4. In reference to question number 3, would fight side by side with BSR Taiwan people or would want to help the invading PLA armies?
5. Why don’t change the name of the KMT from Chinese Nationalist party to the Taiwan Nationalist Party?
6. If given the choice to unify now before the PRC changes to become Democratic, would you unify now if your freedoms were assured kind of like in HK, but with more protections?
7. Could you ever consider yourself or do you now consider yourself with a Taiwan citizenship of Mainland decent. In that way could you say you were Taiwan ren?

For some reason I am drawing a blank now, and I know I should have so many other questions. Anyone else with some questions for the Blues to answer. Actually looking back over my questions some of them are pretty bad, but I am in hurry as I am about to step out, but I am in a hurry to try to understand you guys so the healing can begin.

[sandman]

Hobart, I thought you wanted to CURB Dropout’s posting, but this is only encouraging him.

[the_bear]

um hardcore green that i am prolly need to point out that it’s in no way certain that all blues are pro unification. in fact the whole localisation faction in the KMT is really pro-independence and i wouldn’t be surprised if lien chan isn’t too. these questions really are addressed to the hardcore KMT and PFP and NP people. of which there are prolly none except AC posting in this forum (and don’t expect a whole lot of sense from him either)

[david]

Hobart, those questions are pretty ridiculous. You seem to be trying to make out 49% of Taiwanese to be Commie prevert WSR who would have voted for Mao if he had been running. I suspect the majority of people who voted KMT would be actively insulted by questions 1-4, and would say question 7 didn’t apply to them.

The fact is, that there were a range of good reasons for voting KMT on March 20th … Better relations with China, More stability, Poor performance of the DPP over the last 4 years, Dislike of the divisive nature of the DPPs campaign are just a few of them.

What I don’t understand is how people can defend the behaviour of the KMT since the election. I suspect that a large number wouldn’t try to - which may (or may not) be reflected in the legislative elections at the end of the year.

[RJF]

@david

What I don’t understand is how people can defend the behaviour of the KMT since the election. I suspect that a large number wouldn’t try to - which may (or may not) be reflected in the legislative elections at the end of the year.

IMO, it is Soong and the PFP - far more so than the KMT - that are the instigators behind all this post-election fiasco/mess.

Lian is just a hijacked puppet being jerked around by the Machiavellian Soong. My feeling is that Lian didn’t know what he was getting into when this whole thing started, and now he finds himself on the back of a runaway horse that he doesn’t know how to get off of.

[Hobart]

I guess I was thinking if we can’t get rid of Dropout then we should try to understand him. Know thy enemy right? Actually, I was thinking more of to love thy neighbor.

I know my questions were pretty stupid. I guess I just wanted to get a dialogue started.

David, that is interesting to hear that a lot of KMT are not pro-Unification. I know a lot of people that are BSR that voted KMT, there were obviously a lot and I know why some of them voted Pan-Blue. I suppose I was more interested in understanding the more hardcore Blues. What are they really like? Would they really like to unify with China even now, before they embraced democracy? Have they really lived here all their life and have no desire to learn Taiwanese?..

[Durins_Bane]

Understanding ac_dropout is simple…he gets paid in RMB.

[ac_dropout]

“Oh is this a carrot under a box” said the wabbit.

1. Why do you want to unify Taiwan with China?

Who ever said I wanted that. Don’t your know the code “eventual reunification” is code for “screw you PRC, I just want to directly invest in your booming market. Here’s some lip service for One China.”

2. Do you feel closer or have more in common with some DPP BSR from Kaohsiung (Gaoxiong) or some nice PRC citizens from Shanghai, i.e, who would you think of as your brother.

I’m a Taiwanese ABC. If you sing KTV and like Chinese girls, that’s all I need to know. In the USA there are just so many different Chinese people I grew up with. HK-Chinese, ROC-Chinese, PRC-Chinese, Indo-Chinese, Malay-Chinese, Philippine-Chinese, Korean-Chinese. That as an adult when I started travelling asia to do business, it was like I never left.

It is ugly politics on Taiwan that is unnecessary.

3. If there was a war and CCP were invading Taiwan would you be happy or sad?

Of course sad. I live and have family here. It is unneccessary.

4. In reference to question number 3, would fight side by side with BSR Taiwan people or would want to help the invading PLA armies?

I’m a true believer in Confusian ethics in this case. Soldiers is a really bad career. Taking life on someone else orders. Just plain nonsense. Sure there are people in society with no qualms about this. Just like I have no qualms making money under any government that will allow me.

And let’s say USA saves ROC again in the future with military support. At what price will this support come at. Forced purchases of out-dated arms. Forced lease of land for a naval base. I’m not that naive about international politics that the USA protector of democracy without a price for the people they save.

5. Why don’t change the name of the KMT from Chinese Nationalist party to the Taiwan Nationalist Party?

Don’t know that’s an internal issue within the party. Why don’t the DDP change their names to Taiwan’s Taliban Association?

Even if they change their name they still need a political platform that is different than the DDP on the PRC issue. Let see DDP is the “independence” platform. That means TNP get the anti-independence platform. 2 Party politics is so predictable.

6. If given the choice to unify now before the PRC changes to become Democratic, would you unify now if your freedoms were assured kind of like in HK, but with more protections?

I’m sure if PRC and ROC ever discuss the matter they will come to a solution. These are possible range of autonomy I could see.

Best - Vatican
Middle - HK
Worst - PR and Guam.

7. Could you ever consider yourself or do you now consider yourself with a Taiwan citizenship of Mainland decent. In that way could you say you were Taiwan ren?

Now your talking about nonmenclature. In the USA I just use American or Asian-American. If a foriegner ask when I’m overseas I’m Chinese or Asian-American. If a Chinese person ask I’m a Taiwan-ren or a Taiwan-HK mix or Oversea Chinese. If a Taiwanese person ask I’m a Yilan-ren raised in Taipei or Abroad.

I see no political affliations with my identity. Which is one of my concerns with current political climate in Taiwan.

[mod_lang]

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Best - Vatican
Middle - HK
Worst - PR and Guam.

[/quote]

If you’re claiming that Hong Kong has more democratic autonomy than Puerto Rico and Guam, you should stop getting all your news from the People’s Daily. Both Guam and Puerto Rico have the right to hold democratic referendums on secession, and have done so in the recent past; a majority vote for independence never came about (as they benefit in terms of U.S. tax dollars directed their way, being a semi-autonomous dependency is preferable financially for the people in those territories). Now, when is the PRC going to do the same and allow the people of Hong Kong the right to decide in a democratic referendum whether they wish to unify with China or declare independence?

What the hell does Mussolini’s granting of the Vatican’s independence have to do anything? Pope Pius was Hitler’s Pope, a puppet for the fascists. Hardly some sort of “best” situation.

[ac_dropout]

mod lang,

Spare me the Commie bad, USA good nonsense. Guam is totally underdeveloped and is just a military base where the natives serve the military force. PR are treated as second class citizens as we continue military testing on the island.

HK and PRC issue… That’s really for those Chinese people to decide. But Cheney suggested in public recently with PRC that Taiwan is analogous to sheeps and HK is a bellwether. So I guess he doesn’t have much confident in ROC coming up with an original idea to the problem either. Yes HK is above PR and Guam in terms of development in my opinion. When was the last time international news came out of PR and Guam? Ricky Martin…

If you believe because individuals can toss in a ballot thus leading to a value judgement the country is better, is just ideological nonsense. If I named some democratic countries that were political enemies of the USA, your response would be “Oh that’s a corrupt democracy.” If I named some non-democratic countries that are USA allies your response would be “Oh but that’s not the same.”

Why isn’t the Vactican status a good deal? You’re internationally recognized as a nation-state (which is what the DDP wants), but people just know you have to go throught China to get there, or some other ideological nonsense.

[the_bear]

"Why don’t the DDP change their names to Taiwan’s Taliban Association? "

another pearler from ma boy…go you good thing!