They’ve already launched new models, not sure if they’re any better though…
[quote=“Fox”]I’ve only had a panasonic lumix and I have that one divea wanted. You can see my photos with that camera here: redbubble.com/people/digby.
It’s a good camera but not so great for night photography, but that could be just me.[/quote]
I think most compact/automatic cameras are weak in dim lighting. I actually think my old Sony cybershot did okay in that regard. I don’t like using a flash as it eats up batteries, but they’re included in the cameras for a reason.
It’s all about sensor size and the F value of the lens. Large sensor + low F value means that it works better in low light.
Now it might not be so easy to check the sensor size when you’re buying a camera, but the F value is written on all lenses. Somewhere around F2.0 should do ok in low light and that’s about as good as you’ll get on a non DSLR type camera, although a couple of models go down to F1.8 while regular consumer models usually start between F2.5 and 3.2.
Using zoom in low light as a big no-no, as when you zoom, the lens characteristic’s change and most consumer cameras peak out at something like F5.6/5.8 which is pretty much useless in low light.
Of course a lower F number means more expensive lens which in turn means more expensive camera.
[quote=“TheLostSwede”]It’s all about sensor size and the F value of the lens. Large sensor + low F value means that it works better in low light.
Now it might not be so easy to check the sensor size when you’re buying a camera, but the F value is written on all lenses. Somewhere around F2.0 should do ok in low light and that’s about as good as you’ll get on a non DSLR type camera, although a couple of models go down to F1.8 while regular consumer models usually start between F2.5 and 3.2.
Using zoom in low light as a big no-no, as when you zoom, the lens characteristic’s change and most consumer cameras peak out at something like F5.6/5.8 which is pretty much useless in low light.
Of course a lower F number means more expensive lens which in turn means more expensive camera.[/quote]
Thank you. That is handy and timely. I was just thinking to go out and browse in a shop. Not buying yet – still doing research.
Taz
[quote=“Fox”]I’ve only had a panasonic lumix and I have that one divea wanted. You can see my photos with that camera here: redbubble.com/people/digby.
[/quote]
Some nice shots! I like “beach photographer” 
What’s your budget? As you’ll have to start from there and line up a few models and compare how they fit in your hand, how you like the menus etc as well, as those are other important things to take into consideration.
I don’t want to say money is no object but we tend to buy things and keep them till they die, so we go for quality and are willing to pay a few thousand NT$ extra thinking we’ll make good use of the camera over time. The little camera we are replacing was a gift circa 2003(?) – a Sony Cybershot / DSC-P8 / 3.2 megapixels. I liked this camera for the most part, but I don’t know what it cost since I didn’t buy it. F reads 2.8-5.2, so in line with your previous post, I imagine this was not a budget camera when it was purchased.
My wife and I are thinking about 12- !3,000 would be out upper end, although if we see something under $10,000 which meets our needs, that would be perfect. I would like to take this camera on a once-in-a-lifetime walking pilgrimage in Japan next year. Durability, ease of use, long battery life would all be a pluses. We never use the video function in the current camera (which malfunctioned in Kyoto last week – so the need to replace it). It is essential that the camera be lightweight but I think all the new compacts score well in that category.
I was just surfing around and I think we both like the new Sony Cybershots, although the Panasonic/Lumix models look good too. Any specific model suggestions to look for would be gratefully received.
Thanks, Swede, et al.
I forgot to ask about zoom range, but with a bright lens you’re stuck at about 4-5x zoom max if you want a pocket camera.
Very few cameras are made out of metal, so don’t expect super durable cameras, although there are some ruggedised, waterproof models that might fit your needs if that’s a big concern. As for video, it’s a standard feature now so…
Would you consider Canon? monday.com.tw/gdsale/gdsale.asp?gdid=2162939
Review here trustedreviews.com/digital-c … -300-HS/p1
I think it should meet all of your needs and then some, the only down side being the touch screen interface.
If I didn’t know better (which I don’t) I’d say that Sony is about it refresh its product line of compact cameras, as most of the models on sale are fairly old now. The upside of that is that prices have come down, the downside is that there might be something better around the corner.
If it must be Sony, then I’d spend less and get this monday.com.tw/gdsale/gdsale.asp?gdid=1915626
Review here trustedreviews.com/digital-c … SC-W380/p1 as the 5k more expensive WX5 doesn’t seem to offer any breathtaking advances.
For Panasonic I’d say something like this monday.com.tw/gdsale/gdsale.asp?gdid=2311836
Review here trustedreviews.com/digital-c … MC-FX70/p1 (note that this model has a lower model number in Europe)
but again, it’s touch screen based if that’s something you don’t like. The problem is that the predecessor to that has nowhere near as nice lens.
Also, look at the comparison between the F numbers here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number and you’ll see that even between F2 and F2.8 there’s a huge difference as to how much light will be able to reach the sensor. From 2.0 to 2.2 you’re losing 1/4 and from 2.2 to 2.4 you’re losing another 1/4 of available light. Very small steps, very big differences. I had never paid attention to this before I bought myself a DSLR and it makes a huge difference in poorly lit environments. On top of that, you don’t want to use high ISO on pocket cameras as you’ll see from the example pictures in the reviews.
That’s really very helpful. Thank you for taking the time. I guess the next step is to go to a store when we have a free day and see how we like the feel of individual models.
I went to look at the W380 and it looks like a good deal. However, I found myself becoming seduced by the Sony HX5V priced at $11,980. Here’s a review from the site you reference –
trustedreviews.com/digital-c … DSC-HX5/p1
Note that this review is for the HX5. The “V” apparently has a GPS as well as the other features given here. Downside, as far as I can tell: The lens is supposed to be far superior as is the sensor, but the F range not impressive at 3.5-5.5. Since I plan to take the camera on a mostly outdoor excursion, this might be okay – especially with the added sensitivity – but I worry that shooting indoors at temples and such might be disappointing. In that case, I might take your advice and go for the W380. Still pondering… 
Is there a specific reason why you want a Sony?
One way to get around the lens problem would be to get something like the Sony NEX-3/5 or Panasonic GF1/2, but it works out a bit more expensive than a pocket camera and you have to carry two lenses with you.
As I said before, you have to make a compromise, you either get a fast lens and good low light performance, or you end up with something with a much more usable zoom range and a less fantastic lens for low light photography.
One feature that might help a bit with indoors shots is HDR or High Dynamic Range, it takes three pictures in quick succession with various “stops” which helps to bring out the details in a darker scene, while supposedly preventing highlights from being blown out. Again this will be dependant on the lens to a degree.
There’s no such thing as a universal camera that will be good at everything unless you get a DSLR of some type. The new smaller type DSLR’s like the Sony NEX-3/5 don’t take up much more space with a pancake lens (small, flat, wide angle lens), but the zoom lenses are still fairly large and clunky. However you do also get a much larger sensor which tens to mean less image noise, especially at higher ISO settings.
As I said, I’m not the local camera expert, but I tend to look at things from a consumer perspective rather from that of someone that’s a professional photographer. There are a few other similar models to the HX5, Panasonic and Canon both offer similar models if you want an extended zoom range.
Canon SX210IS cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon … _SX210_IS/
Panasonic ZS7 cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas … _TZ10_ZS7/
And for your reference, the HX5 from the same site cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Cyber-shot_DSC_HX5/
Using higher ISO as a means of image stabilization isn’t always desirable, as it will add noise to the pictures at high ISO, as I’m sure you’ve seen from the ISO comparisons.
From the review I linked to above “Low noise claims not realised. No better than rivals.”
I guess it is brand loyalty. I tend to stick with companies I have been happy with until things change for the worse. I also like the look & feel of the Sony cameras. But you are right in suggesting I look at other Canon or Panasonic, and I will.
Thanks again for the knowledgeable responses. After thinking about it some more, the Sony W380 is still in the lead. I like the lightweight feel. These photos will be for a personal diary – not for publication or even the net, so the smaller camera is probably right for us. But I want to think it over some more. The Panasonic cameras are next on my list for a look-see next time, and then Canon if I have time. I don’t want to do too much more research beyond that.
Cheers –
Taz
Easy way to get to have a look at several cameras is either to find a well stocked 3C shop or even your local Carrefour, as they seem to stock a large amount of cameras. Alternatively, head down to bo-ai road and have a look in some of the shops there.
At least you have plenty of options within your budget, which in a way makes it a bit more complicated. The long zoom range can be useful, but it really depends on what you’re taking pictures of. Also be aware that a really wide angle lens like 24-25mm means that you’re actually only having about 3x zoom compared to say a 28-30mm lens. That’s something many don’t take into consideration, as they just read the X number and not the actual range of the lens.
One nice feature on both the Sony cameras above (HX5 and W380) is the panorama feature which I think may be unique to Sony: pcworld.com/article/190449/s … _mode.html
This somewhat mitigates the need to a wide angle lens (yes, I realize the images are different, but the I tried the sweep feature last night and loved it).
I was at a 3C store last night. Lines were deep, so I only got to the Sony displays. I’ll return to see the other brands in coming days. Right now I am swamped with work.
Any opinions on buying from 3C? If I have a warranty-covered problem after purchase would they handle it? Does it matter? I have an aversion to 3C ordinarily, but the local store here is convenient compared to Nova or specialty camera shops, and as you note they have a well-stocked collection.
I’d suggest that your aversion is well placed. 3C is toxic.
Could you elaborate?
My principal objections:
-
the local store is hideously ugly and quite stupidly designed. The building was originally a bowling alley and has treacherous stairs at the entry. This may sound trivial, but I am a bit of a klutz, not young, and am fearful of taking a tumble and breaking my neck, especially on exiting the store (but I am worried about this so I remain mindful – so far so good);
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on the few occasions I have visited before the staff (all minimum wage I would guess) knew little or nothing about the goods being sold. If I did not know what I wanted before entering the store I would have been lost.
Thus, I have usually preferred to shop elsewhere even if it means spending a little more. Last night, however, the three people I spoke with about the cameras were all helpful and knowledgeable. I imagine the competition for cameras has demanded that even 3C retain good people for this work and (I hope) are paying them for their skills/expertise. It would be easy & convenient for me to buy a camera there, so I may but would like to learn if I need to deal with 3C about the warranty, or if returns would be a hassle should something go wrong.
Any specific opinions or suggestions?
The Tsan Kun shops are indeed crap, although there are other chains here that are more knowledgeable. With regards to the warranty, well, I guess they should handle that, but for the first year you have a manufacturers warranty anyhow and anything beyond that in most cases would be a third party warranty that would be through whatever shop you bought the camera and and it would most likely cost you extra. I don’t know what, if any, kind of third party warranties are available here.
You might want to check out the Best 3C store across the road from Guting MRT station if you’re in the area, they seem to have a large selection of cameras and most of them seems to be set up so you can have a play with them. I don’t think they’re the most affordable place to buy a camera here though, but I really don’t know.
Sorry, Tazzie, missed your post earlier.
Objections: terrible service, lack of knowledgeable staff, near universal reputation for terrible customer service when warranty is an issue.
Unless I need something basic, like a cable, I’d prefer to shop elsewhere, even online, and I tend to shy away from online retailers.