Park Service not allowed to disclose age of Grand Canyon

peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801

[quote]Washington, DC — Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”
[/quote]

Ah the joys of living in a theocracy. Brings to mind this article:

[quote]The summer before my senior year of college I worked as a park ranger guiding hikes in one of the most beautiful state parks in the country. Its central feature was a 256-foot waterfall that plunged down through a gorgeous natural amphitheater, cutting through bands of limestone and sandstone and collecting in a deep pool, the perfect hangout for summer swimming. My favorite program was the hike to the base of the falls. Layers of rock are like chapters in a history book and this canyon, carved so deeply, told an ancient story. Standing at the bottom, calling out over the roar of the falls, I got to teach the exciting conclusion, “The layers of slate and shale beneath our feet tell us that 300 million years ago, this deciduous forest was a tropical jungle.”

“What book d’ya get that out of?” came the reply one day. And thus it began, for this waterfall was not only located in ancient rock, it was also in the heart of the Bible-belt. I had heard there were people who believed the Earth was only 6,000 years old, but I never thought I would actually meet any. That summer, and every other summer I worked teaching science to the public, I met a lot of them. Though most objectors would just walk away from the program, some mothers would cover their children’s ears to protect them from the “blasphemous park ranger.” One man, after I patiently explained how we know the age of rocks, finally just threw up his hands, exclaimed, “The Devil made that rock look that old to turn you away from God,” and led his family back up the trail.[/quote]

I could never put it better than the late Bill Hicks:

[quote]Fundamentalist Christianity: fascinating. These people actually believe that the world is twelve thousand years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them.

“Well, we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages? Twelve thousand years.”
“Well, how fucking scientific, OK. I didn’t know that you’d gone to so much trouble there. That’s good. You believe the world’s twelve thousand years old?”
“That’s right.”
“OK, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?”
“Uh huh.”
“Dinosaurs.”

You know, the world’s twelve thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, and existed in that time, you’d think it would been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point:

And O, Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus… with a splinter in its paw. And the disciples did run a-screamin’. “What a big fucking lizard, Lord!”
“I’m sure gonna mention this in my book,” Luke said.
“Well, I’m sure gonna mention it in my book,” Matthew said.
But Jesus was unafraid. And he took the splinter from the brontosaurus paw, and the brontosaurus became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch, O so many years, attracting fat American families with their fat fuckin’ dollars to look for the Loch Ness Monster. And O the Scots did praise the Lord: “Thank you, Lord! Thank you, Lord!”

Twelve thousand years old. But I actually asked this guy, “OK, dinosaur fossils-- how does that fit into your scheme of life? What’s the deal?” He goes:

“God put those here to test our faith.”
“I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. I think I’ve figured this out.”

Does that-- That’s what this guy said. Does that bother anyone here? The idea that God might be fucking with our heads? Anyone have trouble sleeping restfully with that thought in their head? God’s running around burying fossils: “Ho ho! We’ll see who believes in me now, ha ha! I’m a prankster God. I am killing me, ho ho ho!” You know? You die, you go to St. Peter:

“Did you believe in dinosaurs?”
“Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere. (trapdoor opens) Aaaaarhhh!”
“You fuckin’ idiot! Flying lizards? You’re a moron. God was fuckin’ with you!”
“It seemed so plausible, aaaaaahh!”
“Enjoy the lake of fire, fucker!”[/quote]

And if you want to watch him:
youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWM … ed&search=

So you guys aren’t sensitive to diversity?

Huh?

Huh?[/quote]Is that Bill Hicks from “Bill Hicks and the Hot Licks”?

Huh?[/quote]Is that Bill Hicks from “Bill Hicks and the Hot Licks”?[/quote]

Ahhh… now I get you. Haha. I thought YOU were asking US.

As long as they don’t work for the government…

The park service already has enough to do without answering stupid questions about the age of the Grand Canyon! Does the government have to do everything? I mean, how unprepared can you get! The age of the Grand Canyon? Gimme a break! it’s not even a very good question. Do you mean the start of the formation of the canyon, or the oldest rocks which are exposed in the Canyon? The answer to the second one is Pre-Cambrian by the way… really simple… an answer that rational enlightenment scholars and the modern-day followers of the Bishop of Usher can all live with. Crack open a book after you pack your suitcase and before you get on the plane you dolts! :loco:
And it isn’t like they can’t find that info on the web, or at the USGS, local library, from a guy on the street, from a TV quiz show or from their Uncle Vinnie the Geologist! Maybe this will have the unintended effect of encouraging more intelligent questions from the unwashed public. I know I’d go insane if I had to do what those park service interpreters do every day. :fume:

[quote=“irishstu”]I could never put it better than the late Bill Hicks:

[quote]Fundamentalist Christianity: fascinating. These people actually believe that the world is twelve thousand years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them.

“Well, we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages? Twelve thousand years.”
“Well, how fucking scientific, OK. I didn’t know that you’d gone to so much trouble there. That’s good. You believe the world’s twelve thousand years old?”
“That’s right.”
“OK, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?”
“Uh huh.”
“Dinosaurs.”

You know, the world’s twelve thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, and existed in that time, you’d think it would been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point:

And O, Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus… with a splinter in its paw. And the disciples did run a-screamin’. “What a big fucking lizard, Lord!”
“I’m sure gonna mention this in my book,” Luke said.
“Well, I’m sure gonna mention it in my book,” Matthew said.
But Jesus was unafraid. And he took the splinter from the brontosaurus paw, and the brontosaurus became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch, O so many years, attracting fat American families with their fat fuckin’ dollars to look for the Loch Ness Monster. And O the Scots did praise the Lord: “Thank you, Lord! Thank you, Lord!”

Twelve thousand years old. But I actually asked this guy, “OK, dinosaur fossils-- how does that fit into your scheme of life? What’s the deal?” He goes:

“God put those here to test our faith.”
“I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. I think I’ve figured this out.”

Does that-- That’s what this guy said. Does that bother anyone here? The idea that God might be fucking with our heads? Anyone have trouble sleeping restfully with that thought in their head? God’s running around burying fossils: “Ho ho! We’ll see who believes in me now, ha ha! I’m a prankster God. I am killing me, ho ho ho!” You know? You die, you go to St. Peter:

“Did you believe in dinosaurs?”
“Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere. (trapdoor opens) Aaaaarhhh!”
“You fuckin’ idiot! Flying lizards? You’re a moron. God was fuckin’ with you!”
“It seemed so plausible, aaaaaahh!”
“Enjoy the lake of fire, fucker!”[/quote]

And if you want to watch him:
youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWM … ed&search=[/quote]

Thank you for making my day.

I have a feeling I might be coming back to Taiwan sooner than I expect, provided that I ever leave… Stories like this make it harder and harder for me to want to return.

I was looking at the world history book I am supposed to teach from next semester. Now granted, they want to make it look like it was contemporary so they included events from up to 2004 (it was also written in 2004), but I could almost smell the Bush seal of approval burning on the pages. It’s so slanted to the right, you have to turn it sideways to read it. I half expected the picture of Bush to show him in shining armor lifting the world out of the oppressive hold of “The Axis of Evil”.

Is it wrong to think that perhaps there should be a five-year minimum lag on history books so we can get a better perspective of what was happening then?

It’s scary what history books can be like in an age where even national parks are censored to align itself with religious theory because of government policy.

Well, I can’t speak for the rest of 'em, but I think I’m pretty sensitive. Believe whatever the heck you want to believe regarding the ultimate nature of reality and truth. Spirituality is a personal experience, an internal experience and no one can dictate to you whether your path to God is right or wrong except your own soul.

However, that doesn’t mean I think that I one particular line of religious thought can come in and dicate to the others how truth should be percieved. That would, in fact, be pretty insensitive, wouldn’t it?

Faced with uncertainty regarding truth in the physical, external world, the best tool we have is NOT religious credulity, but the good old scientific method. It dictates that we are always skeptical, always doubting, always testing and re-examining what we think we know about the world external to ourselves. It dictates that no notion is sacred, and ideas (like a 6,000-year-old world) that don’t add up according to available data get thrown out accordingly.

As Becker says in the article I quoted above:

We’re sensitive to reality.

We’re sensitive to reality.[/quote]
Uhhh…mmm’kay…

Is this a joke??

If not, it’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.

I don’t care if and when you believe in ‘a god’ but please don’t carry around nonsense … :s the earth 6,000-12-000 years old … my first bike is older than that … :smiley:

[quote]Freshly returned from his mandatory sensitivity training class, “In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology and, in accordance with our “OFFEND NO ONE TRAINING,” the official position of the National Park Service as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’ stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. [/quote]JDS -
There…I’ve cleaned it up a bit. Now it makes perfect sense.

(well as much sense as any gubment bureaucracy can make)

it’s gotta be a joke.

the bit about st. peter above was pretty funny.

Is this a joke??

If not, it’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]

It’s from the Bush Administration, so of course it’s the dumbest fucking thing you ever heard- that’s their specialty.

I doubt this is a joke. Creationists have always tried infecting all levels of the US government with their pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo - lobbying the judicial, legislative, and administrative branches of the local, state, and federal governments, getting Creationists elected and/or appointed to those same branches, and aggressively taking over school boards. But the young-earth Creationists were roundly defeated in a series of legal battles. They are making a comeback through their somewhat unwitting Trojan horse - Intelligent Design (ID) theory.

Interestingly, ID theory takes the ancient age of the earth and universe as a given. It takes descent by modification as a given. In fact, it agrees with standard cosmological and evolutionary theory in virtually all respects, except that it disagrees the world’s complexity can be a result of simple cosmological processes, genetic mutation, and natural selection. ID theory even sports some completely irreligious individuals, with Ph.D’s from reputable universities in relevant disciplines of science. And yet, despite all of this, ID theory is financially backed primarily by right-wing Christian organizations and individuals that up until a few years ago were adamantly young-earth Creationists. Makes you want to go hmm…

This bit about the Grand Canyon is annoying but completely unsurprising. After all, 45% of all Americans are young-Earth Creationists. Convincing the National Park Service to curtail teaching science or face a mobilized angry tax-paying public is an easy sell for the Creationists.

Is this a joke??

If not, it’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]

It’s from the Bush Administration, so of course it’s the dumbest fucking thing you ever heard- that’s their specialty.[/quote]

Why go after the government when you can go after the people who actually want/support this idiocy?

Caution: Look, but DONT THINK!

[/quote]

Well…where is the address of my congressman…I’m offended.