& 
This story contains very graphics descriptions of the murder of this woman correspondent. It may be very upsetting for some. It is not for the fragile.
[quote]Part of me died when I saw this cruel killing
HALA JABER, The Sunday Times, May 07, 2006
EVEN by the stupefying standards of Iraq
Why do you say this is one of the reasons this war is fought? Was this kind of action widespread prior to the Anglo-American invasion?
Yes
The Chinese have been doing this sort of thing to one another for centuries, thousands of years even. Don’t see anyone rushing off to save the Chinese from themselves. 
Her murder was a terrible, terrible event, and her killers deserve similar treatment.
But I think it’s wrong to use this horrific act as support for the occupancy of the country. If horrific murders were reason enough to invade countries, many Western countries would be under constant threat of invasion, particularly those with the highest murder rates.
It’s like the States being invaded and someone showing the Jeffrey Dahmer trial as a belated excuse.
To be quite frank, I find the use of this poor woman’s murder for political gain to be very, very distasteful.
Correction: This is a result of the war we started.
Tell that to the 500,000 to 3 million people killed by Saddam. The women who were subjected to his sons’ rape rooms, to those that were beaten on a regular basis for being suspected of opposition, to the entire families that were murdered because of the actions of one even distant relative… The high end to the figure also includes those who were killed in Saddam’s various wars including the 8 year war against Iran. So please, let’s get a bit more knowledge about the subject before making such ridiculous statements. Just because YOU did not know about it does not mean that it was not happening.
Tell that to the 500,000 to 3 million people killed by Saddam. The women who were subjected to his sons’ rape rooms, to those that were beaten on a regular basis for being suspected of opposition, to the entire families that were murdered because of the actions of one even distant relative… The high end to the figure also includes those who were killed in Saddam’s various wars including the 8 year war against Iran. So please, let’s get a bit more knowledge about the subject before making such ridiculous statements. Just because YOU did not know about it does not mean that it was not happening.[/quote]
Your logic is askew. Chris’s comment is spot on. You are talking about acts purported to have happened before the invasion, including those funded by the States; Chris is talking about the murder of a woman reporting on a civil war brought about by invasion by US-led forces.
Also, by your argument, are you saying that pre-invasion murders are worse than those caused by our toppling of a foreign government? There were murders; there are murders. But at least the latest murders are happening in a US-occupied country - much better for all!" 
I think your point is that invading Iraq was to stop these cruel murders, right? But, as TainanCowboy illustrates, this has not been the case. But at least we control the oil now, which is nice.
Can logic be askew…
Hmmmm…
purported? Such a big word… I assume then that you have failed to read any of the many reports on the human rights situation in Iraq under Saddam? I do not know if I would use the word purported on any of these. Kind of difficult to talk about an eight-year war in which millions died or mass graves with up to 500,000 people buried in them while using the word “purported.” I believe that this would make your point “askew.”
Good. Why don’t you tell us which of those actions were funded by the States… This should be good. Here, I was sitting all bored and shit because it is Monday but then you came along…
Yes, I get that. But remember that there were no women reporters reporting on anything independently under Saddam’s regime AT ALL.
Well, I am not sure how 500,000 Shia buried in mass graves would be considered anything other than the actions of a government that was actively engaged in murdering certain members of one ethnic community. Ditto for the Kurds. Oh, I get it… You mean that as long as the Sunnis had the upper hand and were murdering at will without the opportunity of massive reprisal attacks by the Shias and Kurds that this was okay since it would not technically count as a civil war. Thanks for that clarification.
Erm … I think I’m still winning, Fred - care to try again?
Hmm? 
Sorry I missed, well… I did not see this section…
Not at all, but there is a major difference. In the first case, Saddam was personally responsible as the dictator and head of a murderous apparatus that did not provide justice. In the second case, the murders are being committed by terrorists and criminals not US forces. Those deaths that result from US military actions are not in the same category as those that were deliberate in nature, especially given that they targeted civilians not military personnel.
Not at all. Murders are occuring. This is true. But the US need not guarantee that no murders take place. We cannot even do this in our own country. What we can do is to try to ensure that the murderers will be brought to justice AND to ensure that the state itself is not willing and complicit in those murders.
Not at all. My main reason for invading Iraq is and always has been regime change EVEN over wmds. I am happy with the results BUT because of that regime change, conditions on the ground may improve since we have removed a terrible dictator. BUT that is also largely up to how the Iraqi people want to live. This sectarian violence is to be deplored but it cannot be laid at the feet of the US occupation, at least not morally.
correct, but how it illustrates your case is something that is a bit more problematic.
Care to prove that. How much of Iraq’s oil is now or has been in the past three years of the occupation controlled by the US, its allies or major Western oil companies?
So, seeing as I just got you to backtrack somewhat, am I awarded a point?
Tell the US public that they control the oil.
[quote]
Weekly U.S. Retail Gasoline Prices, Regular Grade
Dollars per gallon, including all taxes
Change from
4/17/2006 4/24/2006 [b]5/1/2006[/b] week ago [b]year ago[/b]
U.S. 2.783 2.914 2.919 0.005 0.684[/quote]
Tell the US public that they control the oil.
[quote]
Weekly U.S. Retail Gasoline Prices, Regular Grade
Dollars per gallon, including all taxes
Change from
4/17/2006 4/24/2006 [b]5/1/2006[/b] week ago [b]year ago[/b]
U.S. 2.783 2.914 2.919 0.005 0.684[/quote]
So, who is benefiting from the high oil prices?
I have no idea what you are talking about. First, what do you think I am backtracking on? Second, why do you think you should be awarded a point? Third, are you ever going to provide any proof to back up your assertions? Wait. I think that you should get a point. I certainly will fully back your nomination to whichever committee of the special Olympics that you would like to participate in. How about the frisbee toss? because quite frankly that is the only verb that I can think of to adequately describe what I give for your views on this subject.
Admittedly off topic
Sometimes I wonder what fucking planet some of you live on.
To attempt to justify this hideous act by “blaming the US” is ludicrous. So much for compassion for your fellow man/woman/human being.
OK…back to the OT of the thread
Tell the US public that they control the oil.
[quote]
Weekly U.S. Retail Gasoline Prices, Regular Grade
Dollars per gallon, including all taxes
Change from
4/17/2006 4/24/2006 [b]5/1/2006[/b] week ago [b]year ago[/b]
U.S. 2.783 2.914 2.919 0.005 0.684[/quote]
So, who is benefiting from the high oil prices?
eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleu … _page.html[/quote] 
[/quote]
People who invest in big oil. People who invest in altenative energy stocks. People who invest in natural gas and drilling stocks. 
Even Canadians are doing well because of high oil prices. 
[quote]After bottoming at 62 cents in 2002, the loonie, the popular name for Canada’s $1 coin that features a loon, closed at 90 cents to the United States dollar on Tuesday
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Admittedly off topic
Sometimes I wonder what fucking planet some of you live on.
To attempt to justify this hideous act by “blaming the US” is ludicrous. So much for compassion for your fellow man/woman/human being.
OK…back to the OT of the thread[/quote]
Justify?
Your attempts at spin are ludicrous. Respond to my words, not the ones you put in my mouth.
So, let’s get back to you saying that this woman’s cruel murder, which happened last week, was one of the reasons we invaded Iraq a couple of years ago. Carry on …
I have no idea what you are talking about. First, what do you think I am backtracking on? Second, why do you think you should be awarded a point? Third, are you ever going to provide any proof to back up your assertions? Wait. I think that you should get a point. I certainly will fully back your nomination to whichever committee of the special Olympics that you would like to participate in. How about the frisbee toss? because quite frankly that is the only verb that I can think of to adequately describe what I give for your views on this subject.[/quote]
Now, now, Fred. We all know that when one side resorts to insults, they have lost the argument. You don’t see me sitting here calling you a fat poof, for instance. Care to try again?