I think it might be even more shocking if we looked farther east to Sudan where hundreds of thousand of children have been raped, imprisoned, beaten, mutilated, sold into slavery, killed, etc.
Also, an interesting point for the “enlightened” Arab and Muslim societies of the Middle Ages. If so many slaves were used throughout the Arab world, where are their descendants? I mean in the US, we can certainly find 12 percent moving on 15 percent of the population is clearly Black. And given that the Arabs were at the slave trade for more than 1,000 years and it has not really stopped in some countries, where do you suppose all these Black slaves went? Hmmm? Wonder where? Strange that there are not huge Black communities in ANY Arab country? How is that possible?
Flipper: You also have to realize that many on the Left are filled with self-hatred and perhaps resentment or some sort of narcissistically stunted responsible morality. To be a good and moral person does not involve having inate standards or codes of conduct to them but in preaching to and placing themselves “above” their less “enlightened” countrymen, their lives gain value.
I think we have seen that type of behavior frequently on these forums. That is why you will find such incredible moral equivalency and relativism. 1 million children dead in the Sudan, but six in Afghanistan is an epic fucking disaster. The ones in Sudan were targeted and intentionally or negligently killed but great pains were taken to avoid such casualties and deaths in Afghanistan, but this is somehow the more noteworthy crime provoking the usual “outrage” and the leaders of America are to be pilloried. Not because the deaths of the Afghan children matter but to gain a badge of respectability and morality for a group that is totally bereft of both.
Where was your sadness when busloads of Jewish children were blown up by Palestinian militants?
Where was your concern when the Taliban killed thousands, leaving others to starve especially since their mothers were not allowed to work and many of their fathers had been killed in wars?
Where was your emotional appeal for the community to notice the ongoing slavery in Sudan? the child soldiers throughout Africa? those with parents suffering or dead from the AIDS epidemic?
Your concern seems to be motivated more by political considerations. You have therefore been answered and addressed in a manner befitting your query.
To answer your questions, Fred, you are completely wrong. I feel badly for anyone who gets shot, stabbed, bludgeoned, blown up or otherwise injured or killed for whatever reason. You’re attributing motives to me based on your own warped perspectives.
I simply felt badly when I read on Monday that US troops inadvertently killed 9 children and then on Tuesday they killed 6 more. Didn’t you feel a little sad when you read those headlines? When you read last year that 48 people attending a wedding got inadvertently blown up didn’t you feel badly. . . just a little bit?
look at the title of this thread and then repeat with a straight face that you had no political point to make in this thread except to mourn the deaths of 9 children.
[quote=“Rascal”]So if they suffer as you say why doesn’t the US interfere there, liberate them?
Not suggesting they should, just asking why the US doesn’t …[/quote]
I believe they should. Why don’t they? lack of a similarly pressing national interest as there was in the Middle East. Other practical reasons - spreading themselves too thin. The US basically set out a list of priorities.
Iraq at the top… I guess, Iran and N. Korea are vying for second spot…
Now Rascal, surely an engineer should understand that not all components are equal and that some require a great deal of effort (design, manufacture) while others can be outsourced. Involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq cannot be compared 100 percent to Sudan or Somalia or Haiti, but given MT and Rascal’s concern, I am pleased that they will be petitioning the French, German and Belgian governments to put their money where their mouths (very large ones) are and send troops and aid to Sudan. Hurray!
Surely MT, you could see, and I am not suggesting by any means that this is your intent, but surely you can see how your comments might rile other less restrained posters to hate the US and we would not want that would we? It would be spreading and inciting violence and negativity. We should remain postive and focused on improving the lives of all peoples. Right?
“Outsourced”, fancy word. The last time things got outsourced I was retrenched.
Anyhow, I never said they are the same - so tell me, what difference is there between the humanitarian plight by the Sudan children and the Iraqi people (under Saddam)? Wasn’t it Tigerman’s argument that each reason (stated by Bush) was a good reason on it’s own, justifying an invasion!?
So why is the invasion of Sudan (by the US) not justified purely on humanitarian concern?
I guess we all know the answer to that …
You still don’t get it, do you?
I never said the position of Germany, France, Canada, Micronesia etc. in regards to Sudan is the right position or that they should not act. Though of course Germany can’t directly interfere based on it’s constitution, so I guess that takes them out of the equation (for an invasion). Sorry.
It is. [/quote]
So, fred and Tigerman, why are you not invading Sudan and liberate the Children?
Is IYBF right with his ‘priority theory’? Share with us why the US has never invaded because of humanitarian reasons but always puts this argument forward when it does invade countries (for other reasons)!?
Act, not invade I said. An invasion should be the very last option - and since I am currently not aware if anyone is doing anything it might be time to look at the situation and start (acting), including France and Germany etc.
As said earlier I do not encourage an invasion, I just QUESTION why the US doesn’t do it, as implied by the arguments of the pro-war crowd.
As I have repeatedly told you, each country involves different variables. Iraq is NOT ONLY about humanitarian reasons. They help. It was NOT ONLY about weapons of mass destruction. It was NOT ONLY about taking out Saddam but the risks and possibilities of doing so. You have this one-track, simplistic view of all or none, one or all, that any serious discussion of foreign policy issues is completely impossible with you. You are on a one-track approach that emphasizes inconsistencies in US foreign policy and immoral acts while choosing to ignore the realties of the world we live in. Should we aspire to something higher? Definitely and we are, but to criticize the nation with the best record (given its security commitments) is in my opinion disingenuous anti-Americanism disguised as concern for morality and consistent actions.
And I say again: someone, well-known poster here, argued each reason on it’s own is reason enough - so we don’t need a Saddam or WMD in Sudan.
But answer this, fred: is the suffering of the children not as bad as you made it look? Why is this ALONE not reason enough? What (otherwise) stops you from helping them? Why don’t you support an immediate invasion to liberate them?
Stop dodging the questions by pointing to Iraq or diverting to foreign policy, answer them as they are put forward and lecture me about your ‘diverse’ foreign policies, using Sudan as an example.
Best record of what - bombing of most countries since WW2?
[quote=“Rascal”]
Best record of what - bombing of most countries since WW2?[/quote]
Since Germany holds the record for gassing innocent civilians and will probably hold this record for the next 1,000 years* I guess we Americans will just have to make do with what we got.
Ah, Blueface - let it go. We all know your “opinion” on the subject. Your posts are mostly off-topic and certainly qualify as German-bashing, rather than criticism or valuable contribution to the discussion.
But you would have a difficult time with that since it obviously passed you unnoticed that WW2 is over and Germany/Germans has/have changed.
So I leave you alone now, post what you will but don’t expect any response from me anymore, it’s just too tyring …
