Peasants Challenge PRC Government

Protesters angry at corruption and poverty repelled 1,000 riot police. The coming months should be interesting.

guardian.co.uk/china/story/0 … 63,00.html

[quote=“Chewycorns”]Protesters angry at corruption and poverty repelled 1,000 riot police. The coming months should be interesting.

guardian.co.uk/China/story/0 … 63,00.html[/quote]

Bleh… dime a dozen, same old stuff. This one is just more publicized than usual.

interesting where the story has been published, and where it hasn’t.

even more interesting when juxtiposed with the (state-sanctioned) protest against the japanese …

[quote]The village chief reportedly refused to hold a public meeting to hear these grievances. Attempts to petition the central government also proved fruitless. Locals said they had lost faith in the authorities.
“The communists are even worse than the Japanese,” said one man.
[/quote]

is it time to start pointing missles at their own people (again)?

Not quite yet. First they’ll have to fire some at Taiwan in an effort to take the peoples’ minds off the domestic problems. This will only work for a short while of course, as the Taiwan issue is not really what the Chinese public is upset about.
THAT’S when the tanks will roll and the red army will start killing farmers.

This does not sound like “same old, same old” in terms of riots in China. I have never heard of a “publicized” (key word) riot in which the police did not get the situation “under control” in a short amount of time.

I do think that if this is what the article claims it is…a won battle, it could mean the government is in deep doo doo. Deep doo doo because if this can happen in one place, it can happen in others. I don’t think there is any great revolt in the works, but I do think that this is a sure sign of internal weakness.

I am sure Beijing knows this. They hesitate because a slight wrong move in dealing with such a case could cost them dearly.

Now, as more (and larger) anti-Japanese protests are planned for this weekend, I wonder how easily one of those protests could get out of control…or how some other group could use the occasion as an excuse to hold their own protests. I mean, since protests against Japan are ok (even though they are only ok because they are in line with the government’s agenda), why not against things that hit much closer to home?

Been there done that. You people have such short memory. During the Cultural Revolution, the entire government was dismantled and the PRC still survived. This is nothing. Out-of-control class riots happen, even in the West.

[quote=“zeugmite”]

Bleh… dime a dozen, same old stuff. This one is just more publicized than usual.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s where the problem is.

Been there done that. You people have such short memory. During the Cultural Revolution, the entire government was dismantled and the PRC still survived. This is nothing. Out-of-control class riots happen, even in the West.[/quote]

I believe we were talking about slightly more recent history, but I am sure you knew that. I would explain more, but frankly, you are not worth my time.

Been there done that. You people have such short memory. During the Cultural Revolution, the entire government was dismantled and the PRC still survived. This is nothing. Out-of-control class riots happen, even in the West.[/quote]

I believe we were talking about slightly more recent history, but I am sure you knew that. I would explain more, but frankly, you are not worth my time.[/quote]

He’s right. China’s countryside has been in various states of revolt for years. Just because the newspapers choose to publicise some and not others doesn’t change that. It’s anarchy in the countryside. The peasants have been revolting for years.

The police getting things “under control”? What police? Have you ever been to the countryside in China?

the newspapers choose what to publish … :saywhat:

the newspapers choose what to publish … :saywhat:[/quote]

Well, I read an credulous editorial in the Asian Wall Street Journal a few months ago which was shocked and horrified that there was a riot in NW China over some real or perceived slight over a road accident. The editorial basically foretold the imminent demise of China as it was suddenly going to be engulfed in rioting.

The numerous bombings in China, and civil commotions are not generally reported in newspapers, although they do often come down on the wire services such as Reuters and AFP. Often they’re not reported for quite some time. The riots in China in 1986 and 1987 which were as widespread and as co-ordinated as the 1989 demonstrations hardly got a mention, but they were the precursors to the 1989 riots.

In many parts of rural China there are two PSB men and a dog, who are both in the pocket of the local Party man. If anybody wants a riot, they can have one, but in a day or so help will come from a local town. Unbelievably they still happen. If a newspaper chose to, it could fill its pages with civil commotions in China. Always been there, always will be there. But it doesn’t mean that just because they hit the big papers China’s finished.

This Japan thing gets dragged up every so often, and then foreign journalists dust off their old pieces predicting the imminent collapse of China due to peasant unrest. Change the dates, republish. Then it’s all forgotten about, and back to writing about the “overheating economy” (although I have yet to see a single scholarly explanation of the meaning of this from brokerage house, newspaper, or even the Economist).

my point was that china’s newspapers don’t choose what to publish, in that they are restricted to writing what it deemed acceptable for the masses …

Don’t get fixated on imagined words, please. I said “publicized” and 21p wrote “newspapers” – neither of us meant officially sanctioned news in PRC, i.e. publicized through a sensationalist foreign press not interested in reporting underlying background but only surface symptons.

Reminds me of the Daily Show’s mock introduction to the problem of Iran, pretending an invasion was upcoming. After giving some facts about Iran, Stewart mouthed: "Of course most Iranians are considered Persians, not Arabs. Now some of you may wonder what the difference is: – " And then he abruptly turned to another topic.

Modern China was founded on peasant revolution. The government seems to allow the peasants to “ferment” in their poor pastures. Chairman Mao’s guide to lead peasant riots is sure to come in handy.

The related BBC article is interesting, in that the post-riot village is now a tourist attraction:

The cause for the riot, according to the BBC, is that the pollution from the local chemical factory is causing problems among the residents. I suppose we should urge them to move their homes if they don’t like living near toxic waste.

Been there done that. You people have such short memory. During the Cultural Revolution, the entire government was dismantled and the PRC still survived. This is nothing. Out-of-control class riots happen, even in the West.[/quote]

I believe we were talking about slightly more recent history, but I am sure you knew that. I would explain more, but frankly, you are not worth my time.[/quote]

He’s right. China’s countryside has been in various states of revolt for years. Just because the newspapers choose to publicise some and not others doesn’t change that. It’s anarchy in the countryside. The peasants have been revolting for years.

The police getting things “under control”? What police? Have you ever been to the countryside in China?[/quote]

I know the peasants have been revolting for years. That was not the point. C’mon…I live in Taipei where every time a granny smacks a Chinese policeman, the Taipei Times reports it.

The point was that the peasants revolted, people found out about it, and there has been no “we have matters under control” statement from the government. Every report I have ever seen about a peasant revolt seems to be very quickly, officially “under control” so they say. I still have not seen any government statements that say that the situation is “under control.” Have you?

Been there done that. You people have such short memory. During the Cultural Revolution, the entire government was dismantled and the PRC still survived. This is nothing. Out-of-control class riots happen, even in the West.[/quote]
Yeah, but the entire government was dismantled.
That is not at all ordinary. If we have anything near the scale of the cultural revolution happening, it’s news.

To be fair it’s very difficult to know with any degree of certainty what’s going on right now. Any reliable news that comes out of China tends to be a bit out of date.

When the CCP speaks, its audience is always domestic. As far as the CCP is concerned and for public consumption, there is nothing to get “under control”, and the domestic news will reflect that. Privately I am sure they are worried, but it is something they have been dealing with for quite a while. Whilst we may see news reports about sporadic violence in China, the vast majority of Chinese do not, and the CCP feels no need to make statements on whether these incidents are “under control”.

There is a new generation growing up who couldn’t give a monkey’s about any peasant revolt anyway. They know nothing of the 50s and 60s and could care even less. This is the rent-a-mob that was shouting about Japan. Obviously none of them have ever seen a Japanese textbook, and have no connection with or memory of the war or the Japanese invasion. If the CCP told them people from Mars once slighted the Great Chinese People they would be out rallying against the Nasty Evil Martians. They see virtually nothing wrong with the CCP as for them in their lifetimes, the CCP has brought prosperity and given them an identity: The Chinese. I would even think the identity bit is not as strong as the materialistic bit. What you have growing up in China now are the most selfish brats in the history of mankind. And theyr’e angry young men, too. Despite all the bravado and nationalism, they all have to deal with the fact that all the chest-thumping would evaporate into thin air if someone offered them a green card. That’s got to sting a bit. So expect to see more “Fuck America! Fuck America! Oh, Green Card? Thanksverymuch… I Love America! Yippee!”

Ah Chinese and politics. Fun fun fun. But even more fun are the Western journos who believe things like statistics from the People’s Bank of China, and think that “China is going to be the next [whatever]”. All of them, almost to a man, think that China is now a democratic market economy, and they’re talking about things like interest rates, and marginal propensity to consume. Yeah right. Marginal propensity to do whatever the fuck the CCP wants you to do more like.

“Overheating”. The economy, we are told is “overheating”. And that is “bad” for China. Please, I beg any of you who think that is true, post a link to some credible research done on this, as I have yet to see anything remotely convincing on China’s “overheating” economy. Not even a definition of “overheating”.

The beauty of arguing about China. Nobody, including of course me, has a clue what he’s talking about. That’s why it’s fun. Oh yes, and making predictions. Here’s one: the Taiwanese will all be booted out within the next 10 years as China no longer needs them. Their technology transfers (second-hand from Japan_ can be replaced by direct US, EU, and Japanese technology transfers. This is already happening in the auto industry. China doesn’t need capital as much as it needs technology.

The kick-out-ability of foreigners (inc Taiwanese) was a plank of the policy in the 70s creating the SEZs. Once the Euros and Yanks and Japanese have outgrown their usefulness, they’ll be booted out, too. Say, 20 years?

With regard to mob action, vis-a-vis the anti-Japan riots. Rent-a-mob? Nah… not in an absolute comparison, but relatively speaking for PRC, it may be the equivalent of rent-a-mob elsewhere.
A true rent-a-mob is DPP driving its supporters out to protest along with the chief executive who, of all people, has the unique power to resolve the protestors’ grievances.

On the mainland’s recent anti-Japan protests, the protestors are self-organized. There is no reason to doubt that. 100’s of thousands of people do not just turn out even if the government wanted, in this day and age of apathy. The government discourages it, the government doesn’t allow reporting it. We can only say that the government, so far, has not been against it to a degree that it uses force to stamp down on it, which it does with anything potentially destabilizing China. But it’s true that ultimately it is up to the government how far these things go and what to allow every step of the way.

The problem should not be solely with the PRC implicitly tolerating this wave of protests, which I feel is unhelpful. The problems are:

  1. Protests in PRC are always just a slight bit agitated and “violent” by Western standards, because people are generally acquiescing (or suppressed) and so when they finally do go protest, they have too much frustration to release peacefully. After a while of this, the concept of a carvinal-like Taiwan-style leisurely stroll by the name of “protest” is simply quite alien and doesn’t happen in the PRC. Also since the law isn’t what determines what is ultimately allowed or not in a protest – but fiat – people tend to take it to the max.

  2. The PRC not tolerating most other protests, which because of #1, is a darned good idea for stability. Of course, this is self-inflicted, because #1 and #2 reinforce each other. This problem also makes these anti-Japan protests seem so out-of-place and completely cheapens the real dissent with Japan, a genuine message that should be communicated under normal circumstances.

So, I would be careful to characterize this as rent-a-mob.

:slight_smile: Have you been to China, recently? Or to any other communist country, for that matter?
Sorry, but that’s a little hilarious.
100s of thousands of people will stand on their heads and sing “Traviata”, if that’s what the CCP wants them to do.

No, it is obviously you who hasn’t been to China recently.
This might have been possible 20 years ago or in North Korea today, but not in China today.
Of course, through biased reporting, they can manipulate perceptions, but that’s not the point I made now, is it? I said they were “self-organized,” i.e., no directive saying, go protest here, now, on this topic.