Anti-Japanese stickers are placed on the helmet and uniform of a Chinese military police officer during
an anti-Japanese protest on Saturday April 16, 2005 in Shanghai, China. Protesters defied government
warnings and held demonstrations Saturday in two Chinese cities, amid suggestions that Beijing was trying
to use the unrest to block Tokyo’s bid for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat. (AP Photo)[/quote]
Excuse me while I continue to believe that these “riots” are part and parcel of the PRC gov’t activities.
I think in the case of anti Japanese riots it will have been very easy to find genuine volunteers to attend the riot. I also believe that the initial impetus for the demonstrations may have come from people eager to ingratiate themselves with the higher-ups of the CCP, to whom word may have been passed that it might be a good idea to organise such a demonstration. There is no need for press ganging in China now. There are any amount of volunteers. I still think it can be characterised as a rent-a-mob though. Much the same thing.
Amusing how the Gweilos get it all wrong and the Hong Konger’s get it so right.
[quote]When people talk about Communist Party, they think of it as a totalitarian country, and they are forgetting about the most important nature of the Communist part. The fact is that the specialty of the Communists is to organize mass movements. On the subject of organizing mass movements, the people of Hong Kong can only be said to be totally clueless. Only the people of Li Yi’s generation can be said to have some sense. Look at the last two July 1 marches in Hong Kong. The people have absolutely nothing to show for it afterwards (得個吉).
To characterize a demonstration as being not spontaneous because the government used buses to move people around is a superficial view. According to the Communist Party’s own terminology, it is narrow leftist “empiricism” to counterpose “spontaneous” against “not spontaneous.” No one who has ever been involved in organizing mass movements will speak in those terms.
Many Hong Kong people still indulge in wishful thinking. The June 4 incident occurred many years ago, but they still have not reflected on it enough. Which stage of the 1989 democratic movement was spontaneous? Which stage was not managed as a result of power struggles within the Chinese Communists? If the Hong Kong people don’t analyze this carefully before making their assessment, then they are just playing with themselves. If the Zhao faction did not have some use for the student movement at that time, it would have been over early already![/quote]
To juxtapose the present wave of protests in China with something closer to home for many forumosans. Were the March anti-seccession protests spontaneous? Were they government orchestrated? Chen Shui Bian was there, and it is without doubt that it was aided by the DPP and transportation was provided by government funds. Surely it was a DPP plot to rally domestic political assets and manipulate international opinion to legitimize their separatist agenda. No no, perish the thought, it was a populist demonstration of Taiwanese people that was entirely spontaneous and non-political. Double standards anyone?
LOL… “are placed.” No, one policeman has it in his helmet. He probably put it there himself.
I really don’t think this was organized by the government. All signs point to this having a start in the online petition drives begun by a few organizations like the Protect-Diaoyutai organization (HK based) and the Alliance for Preserving the Truth of Sino-Japanese War (US based) in light Japan’s UN drive. Then things just spread through the internet and mobile phones very quickly despite government orders to move or remove links to these and a hundred other petitions that sprang up and suppressing any news of the demonstrations.
Anyway, as long as the government is still in the business of stopping protests, it would be nice to put a stop to this thing about now. It is said that it took 100,000 police and checkpoints to stave off another Beijing protest yesterday.
This is not hard to understand. One, China is too big to be considered monolithic for any purpose. In fact, you can find just about any kind of situation somewhere in China. So naturally there are different opinions. There are people who love Japan and America 100% and there are intellectuals who admire neo-conservative foreign policy. Aside from that, even the people who do find fault with Japan and US in their international behaviors (esp. as they affect China) for whatever reason certainly recognize that those countries’ internal society is much more desirable (economically first, but also politically). That’s no contradiction at all. That’s rational thinking.
No, no, no. This one (as well as 228 last year) were obvious because the DPP organized it in the open.
Taiwan’s democratically elected government organized a peaceful protest designed to bring international attention to the fact that China was moving one step closer to war with this country. China’s dictatorial government organized a violent protest over a text book in order to deflect attention from it’s own corruption. Apples and oranges friend. Apples and oranges.
“Aren’t these villagers brave? They are so tough it’s unbelievable,” said a taxi driver from Yiwu, the nearest city. “Everybody wants to come and see this place. We really admire them.” (From the Gaurdian article)
Perhaps the DPP should plot a rally to have lobotomies covered by the National Health Insurance specifically for KMT leadership. (since they are so delusional about trusting the CCP). The Japanese hating riots are justcover for the real trouble, internal unrest. It will definately be an interesting summer.
[quote=“bob”]
Taiwan’s democratically elected government organized a peaceful protest designed to bring international attention to the fact that China was moving one step closer to war with this country. China’s dictatorial government organized a violent protest over a text book in order to deflect attention from it’s own corruption. Apples and oranges friend. Apples and oranges.[/quote]
Touche bob. However, I would point out two things. Taiwan protests directed against China are not neccessarily serene as there are certain to be green ideologues (read TSU) who will and do go to extremes. Second, China’s dictatorial government neither organized the protest nor was it particularly violent nor is it solely about textbooks. There were no injuries, nor clashes with the police, just directed vandalism against the Japanese embassy and a few random Japanese storefronts. The textbook issue isn’t really the core matter underlining the demonstrations, but more accurately Chinese opposition to Japan’s security council bid is. Oh facts are such troublesome things.
What kind of “peasant logic” would make them unhappy about Japan’s elevation to the Security Council. The composition of the current Security Council was enacted aftr WW2, and is out of date in the 21st Century IMO. Japan pays most of the UN’s dues and has for a very long time. Why shouldn’t Japan, a “model Asian” country that is a “progressive” democracy, that follows the rule of law, and that finances many international organizations, play a greater role within these organizations. Japan is the model for all nations in Asia. With China’s rising ascendency in world affairs, a strong militarized Japan is vital for Asia’s stability. How can the Japanese feel secure with this military behemoth a short distance away while hatreds from the last war are still simmering in China?
[quote=“cmdjing”]Amusing how the Gweilos get it all wrong and the Hong Konger’s get it so right.
[quote]When people talk about Communist Party, they think of it as a totalitarian country, and they are forgetting about the most important nature of the Communist part. The fact is that the specialty of the Communists is to organize mass movements. On the subject of organizing mass movements, the people of Hong Kong can only be said to be totally clueless. Only the people of Li Yi’s generation can be said to have some sense. Look at the last two July 1 marches in Hong Kong. The people have absolutely nothing to show for it afterwards (得個吉).
To characterize a demonstration as being not spontaneous because the government used buses to move people around is a superficial view. According to the Communist Party’s own terminology, it is narrow leftist “empiricism” to counterpose “spontaneous” against “not spontaneous.” No one who has ever been involved in organizing mass movements will speak in those terms.
Many Hong Kong people still indulge in wishful thinking. The June 4 incident occurred many years ago, but they still have not reflected on it enough. Which stage of the 1989 democratic movement was spontaneous? Which stage was not managed as a result of power struggles within the Chinese Communists? If the Hong Kong people don’t analyze this carefully before making their assessment, then they are just playing with themselves. If the Zhao faction did not have some use for the student movement at that time, it would have been over early already!
[/quote][/quote]
So the communists specialize in inciting mass movements, from behind the scenes when necessary, and when it is politically desirable.
But not this one? A bold statement. most we can say is that the communists are not seriously suppressing the movement. we have no idea what hand they may or may not have in inciting it. again they are fully capable of cynically manipulating such movements when it suits their purposes.
to compare this to the recent protest in taiwan, where the government openly promoted the protest for a specific purpose–which it was actually for mind you–the phrase apples and oranges flatters such a comparison.
cmdjing - You may not think that having your propert vandalized in this way is violence, but I suspect if you were one of the Japanese people with lives and businesses in China you’d have a much different perspective on that. Those events were certainly indicative of an ongoing threat of violence. That can be as destructive as an isolated occurence of it.
The recent protest in Taiwan was not only better justified but also more peaceful than the one that we are talking about in China. And you may believe that the government in China had nothing to do with the protests there but a lot of informed people seem to be questioning that notion, and for some very good reasons it would appear.
The Shanghai racially motivated mob violence warrants apology. The government’s laissez-faire attitude about protests gives state approval to the violence. At some level the Chinese government is encouraging the protests, violent protests, to exist. Shanghai government’s empathetic stance shows that the protestors are compatriots acting in accordance with moral behavior.
Police negotiated for half an hour to stop the unauthroized protest as the crowd grew to march to the Japan Consulate.
In the end, the police allowed a march under supervision.
The red banner says “Japanese government should apologize to the Chinese people” in Chinese, Japanese, and English
The white banner reads “Nanjing Massacre,” “Boycott Japanese goods,” “Strongly protest Japanese textbook coverups.”
The protestors threw bottles and paint at the Japan compound.
Employees of a Shanghai restaurant make clear during the protest that theirs is owned by Taiwanese and get a round of applause instead of eggs.[/quote]
[quote=“Jonathan Watts”]On Hushanguan road, a mob threw a bicycle through the windows of a Japanese okonomiyaki restaurant. In a nearby shopping district, protesters broke windows at about 10 Japanese-style noodle shops and bars - many of them Chinese-owned. Several Japanese-made cars were pelted with bottles and gravel, regardless of the nationality of the drivers.
When the largest group reached the Japanese consulate, they jostled with riot police who allowed them to throw bottles and stones at the building.[/quote]
[quote=“Jonathan Watts”]Although the government insists the rallies are spontaneous, it could control them if it wanted. That much was apparent yesterday in Beijing, where students were reportedly confined to their dormitories and hundreds of police were checking the identities of people who attempted to enter Tiananmen Square. In Guangzhou, the authorities broke up a planned rally at a football stadium.
But in Shanghai the police not only approved yesterday’s demonstration, they actively encouraged it. At 4.30pm last Thursday, mobile phones in Shanghai buzzed with a text-message from the municipal security office calling on local people to show their love for their country in a law-abiding way. Many among the millions who received the message took it as a green light to join the demonstration. News about the rally was also broadcast by the Shanghai radio station, which informed people about the march while also announcing that it was unauthorised. [/quote]
[quote]Police negotiated for half an hour to stop the unauthroized protest as the crowd grew to march to the Japan Consulate.
In the end, the police allowed a march under supervision. [/quote]
Now if the Falung Gong, or some Tibetan Independence activists wanted to stage a rally, do you think the police would negotiate with them for half an hour, and then let them march under supervision?
Looking at a guy throwing a bottle (photo corteously of Zeugmite) made teh whole thing clear for me.
It would have been so easy for 2 riot policemen to storm out, take him, and pull him away.
Our point in general is that this is a sanctioned demonstration. For the poor people driving Japanese cars, opening up a Japanese-style noodle shop or working in a Japanese JV, too bad, I guess.
Now, if the Chinese government would only allow their citizens the right to demonstrate peacefully for Falun gong, increased democracy and so on. they could set their standards higher, and say that bottle and egg throwing was not allowed.
[quote=“Mr He”]For the poor people … working in a Japanese JV, too bad, I guess.[/quote]:lol: CNN (IIRC) had a report that workers in a JV had stopped work and then vandalised their own factory. I don’t have much sympathy for them being out of work now.
Are we going to see a slowing in Japanese investment in China? Will some of it come to Taiwan instead? I think it was a class move by the Japanese to demand an apology that they knew full well would be rejected, now everyone can see who the belligerent party is.
[quote]Looking at a guy throwing a bottle (photo corteously of Zeugmite) made teh whole thing clear for me.
It would have been so easy for 2 riot policemen to storm out, take him, and pull him away.
Our point in general is that this is a sanctioned demonstration.[/quote]
Well, I think the top agrees with the protestors’ points about Japan, so they haven’t been beating them down and dragging them home. What they have done (so far) is to stay neutral on the carrying out of protests themselves, which is pretty unusual.
However, I think between the protests petering out vs. continue unabated, the top still prefers that they stop.
Any demonstration that materializes is, of course, sanctioned, but that’s different from encouraged, suggested, or directed.
