Any demonstration that materializes is, of course, sanctioned, but that’s different from encouraged, suggested, or directed.[/quote]
Hmmm… the CCP… Allowing alternative encouraging, and direction of a large-scale protest… Bearing in mind tiananmen, I would say not that horribly likely. Sure they are condoning it - taking the lead in organizing it. Making sure that the Japanese are blamed for every ill in the workgroup studies.
Hmm, OK not much sympathy for them. Agree to that, if they smash up their office and are fired for doing so…
Foreign investment in china has survived worse than this, so no, I only think that we will see a temporary dip in Japanese investment. In 12-18 months, they will be pumping as many of their investment yen is as they were before.
I can’t believe for one minute that these protests were not choreographed by the government. Does anyone really believe that the political landscape of China is now changed and that protests are going to be tolerated?
When the expressway was built in Shanghai, how did those protests finish up? (The displaced people of Yan’an Road)
Those people kicked out of their hutongs in Beijing? How did their protests go?
What does anyone expect from China? A big political rally? A huge Chinese nationalist love-in? Of course the CCP is behind it. What I don’t understand is why it is necessary to fuck up relations with Japan right at this point. What’s the message? “Get orf my laaaand!”? Get orf my security council?
And who’s going to be next? Is this a dry run for when they throw Taiwanese businesses out? (A pet theory of mine)
中國人民站起來了！ Now, sit the fuck back down before someone gets his eye put out!
[quote=“21p”]I can’t believe for one minute that these protests were not choreographed by the government. Does anyone really believe that the political landscape of China is now changed and that protests are going to be tolerated?..
I don’t think that’s right. Spontaneous protests occur in China quite often, mostly because of specific local problems. The unwritten rule is that they don’t turn into general anti-government protests, which would not be kosher.
In general i think it’s undoubtable that the government does not really want mass protests of this nature occuring. Such protests after all may just take on a different direction from where they started.
However actively suppressing such a protest could create its own resentment. a bit of a dilemna.
I’m sure the government is basically wishing this would end, but as long as it is purely anti-japanese in tone, it is more expedient to keep it pointed in the right direction and under control.
Tiananmen didn’t begin as a call for democratization or the overthrow of the CCP … it was to mourn the death of what’s-his-name … but it soon changed. But, I don’t think the CCP will be collapsing any time soon. They know their Chinese history, which always moves in the same cycles … over and over and over and over … and 3,000 years of that, I think they can deal with some minor “uprisings.”
Tiananmen never was a call for the overthrow of the CCP, but an improvement of it. It began as a mourning for Hu Yaobang, former CCP party secretary, and then turned, in a time of economic downturn, to discontent with the massive economic and social change that the 80s brought (all this change and uncertainty for what? people asked at the time). It was an exercise to get the CCP to listen and be more responsive to the people.
Things never match up to Western interpretations.
Anyway at the time there was no middle class, and very very few people were well off, so the whole society had similar complaints. The basis for that kind of thing no longer exists. Now the only ones who are screwed are the peasants, but they are a shrinking force as they turn themselves into city-dwellers.
Chinese history is at a point of inflection, as it has been the last hundred years, barring frequent interruption. Urbanization tends to do that. This time, it looks like it will make it. The CCP’s mandate right now is to do this and exactly this. If it fails, it goes into the dustbin of history. If it succeeds, then people will demand other things.
Who are you to know or decide what’s “canonical”.[/quote]
Whatever it is that large numbers of people keep mouthing on the subject and that I keep hearing. Why don’t you go take a survey of your average Joe and surprise me?[/quote]
I think he was complaining about your use of canonical…a word that you have indeed misused. Canon is not determined by an individual. Canon is usually not determined by the masses. Canon is a set group of works (or if you prefer a loose interpretation, in this case “assumptions”) that have been selected by a select body as a basis of interpretation. For one person to proclaim a canon is quite audacious.
Likewise, the masses don’t determine canons. I think the word you were looking for was “common.”
Funny how this discussion of canon arose out of your disregard for the comment of littlebuddha, a westerner whose interpretation you so callously disregarded even though, judging by your response to him, he is not in disagreement with you. Kind of takes the wind out of the sales of your “false western interpretations” myth.
Would you not agree, zeugmite, that the extent to which the difference you mention is meaningful (a difference that I agree with you exists, btw, as a matter of semantics) can depend on the rules that govern the activity in the first place?
As an example:
------ Country A allows all virtually all forms of free speech, even allowing racist speech so long as there is no direct incitement to violence.
Zeugmite is right. The peasants are, as in his phrase in his above post, headed for the dustbin of history. They are irrelevant to the future of China. We have in the modern age machines that can do all of their jobs to feed the nation. But we cannot do that because that would leave millions of peasants jobless. So they are permitted to exist as an anachronism. Taking care of the peasant problem will be one of China’s greatest problems in the future. What should we do and where should be put such excess population that serves no use?
Peasants can always be useful, you could always make them do more ‘productive’ jobs besides the much needed agricultural industry. Although China has one of the largest agricultural ‘forces’ in the world, its also not very efficient. Maybe the government can set aside a few billions that it spends on weapons and giving these peasants the tools to make China the #1 agricultural nation in the world. This is much better than throwing them aside and considering them useless much like the CCP has done.