Pedophilia is WRONG but Ephebophilia OK?

Discussion Open Forum
21

Yeah, but as long as he’s chasing the women and not the boys, what’s the problem? :laughing:[/quote]
er…what?[/quote]

What I meant was, ok, so maybe he has some underlying issues, but as long as his sexuality is expressed only in a legal manner, directed toward adult women, then I don’t feel particularly concerned. Yeah, it’s creepy, BUT: his immaturity, lack of an understanding about socially acceptable conversation, and his lack of any sense of responsibility toward the women he dates are more worrying.

(Oh, but I still wouldn’t want him anywhere near my son.)

22

Wow, look at the interest in this thread.

23

[quote=“Sweet Cheeks”]
I know what many of you are saying, but the issue in the original post which worried me was this man liked the legal women who looked illegal and had the body of a child: no curves, no waist. He said this, believe it or not, “I like women who look like boys.” That got me thinking whether he was homosexual? But I didn’t want to mix up too many issues.[/quote]

This is a guy you JUST met and he’s telling you this. I think that is a sign of a real problem. This goes beyond pervy for me. This is a more like an “OJ admission.” Child sexual predators like to brag, in a cryptic manner, about what they’ve been up to. But who knows for sure?

Either way, I wouldn’t have anything to do with him, even if he was buying.

BTW, homosexuality has little to do with being a child sexual predator.

24

Yeah, but as long as he’s chasing the women and not the boys, what’s the problem? :laughing:[/quote]
er…what?[/quote]
What I meant was, ok, so maybe he has some underlying issues, but as long as his sexuality is expressed only in a legal manner, directed toward adult women, then I don’t feel particularly concerned…[/quote]
So are you suggesting it would it be ok to look at pornographic photos of boys, as long as you were only in a relationship with a woman?

Lets face it. It is wrong to lust after anything with an obsession like that, irrespective of age or gender. But I would like some clarification on your last quote. I’m still trying to figure this guy out. He creeped me out, yes, but he’s a friend of my friend’s and I’ll bump into him again. And I need to get everything figured out like whether I should bring this up with our mutual friend, our friends’ kids, relatives, younger brothers and sisters, etc.

25

Where the bloody hell did I say anything remotely resembling that? :loco:

I repeat, and I’ll spell it out a little more slowly for you: “maybe he has some underlying issues, but as long as his sexuality is expressed only in a legal manner, directed toward adult women”.

Is porno of teen boys legal?

No.

So your suggestion is obviously not what I said.

Is it directed toward adult women?

No, so again, that’s not what I said.

Not even remotely.

Sheesh.

Sometimes talking to these controversial first-posters is like banging one’s head against a rock.

What I AM saying is that if the guy does have a socially unacceptable philia (which is not ok) and also a normal heterosexual inclination (which is ok) --it would seem he has some of both-- then better that he act on the latter and not the former. How difficult a concept is that? :unamused:

26

I have nothing to add here.

but he’s a crep.

27

While interesting, it migh be a goo idea that this thread be binned…imagine if our freinds at the worlds most upstanding newspaper, The Apple Daily got hold of it. :astonished:

28

Notwithstanding the fact that I agree that the guy referenced in the OP is creepy, I have to agree with DB’s above statement.

There is, at least in my mind, a considerable difference between a) liking WOMEN (not girls and not boys) who look like boys and b) liking boys who look like women (or girls).

I mean, if a guy likes (and chases) WOMEN (not girls and not boys), who cares about his preference in body-type? Some guys like voluptuous WOMEN… some like small WOMEN… some like thin WOMEN… some like big WOMEN… some like slinky WOMEN… but, they all like WOMEN and nobody cares about the individual body-type preferences.

Unless the adult guy desires and or chases BOYS (and or girls), I don’t see any issue at all with his preference for WOMEN (and not girls and not boys).

29

He’s a crepe. Or possibly a tortilla.

30

LL has an unhealthy obsession with bakery items.

31

He’s not a tortilla. We of Mexican blood appreciate a good señorita when we see one – be she slender or voluptuous! Nor is he a crepe. The French too know and appreciate their ladies. He is most definitely… nambla pie.

32

[quote=“Dragonbones”]Where the bloody hell did I say anything remotely resembling that? You’re :loco: …

I repeat, and I’ll spell it out a little more slowly for you: “maybe he has some underlying issues, but as long as his sexuality is expressed only in a legal manner, directed toward adult women”.[/quote]

I did not say you said that! I just asked if that is something you are suggesting. Your input is appreciated since you know more about this subject than I do, and all I have is articles to go by on the internet.

This is one of the most absurd and uncomfortable situations I’ve been in, and I’m not one who’s easily shaken to the point of posting on a forum about my daily chit chats. To make matters worse is the fact that this person is a friend of mine who I will see from time to time. I don’t know if he has told other friends about his thoughts. It’s not like I can go to any of my friends and ask them what to do or to discuss the ephebophiliac with them, of course.

I am curious whether his thinking about boys while being with women is ‘ok, no need to worry about that, since it’s just thought, not actual actions.’ This is the part where I suggested the looking at pictures of boys but getting it on with women part, if that was what you meant by “as long as his sexuality is expressed only in a legal manner, directed toward adult women.”

Is it ok to think and talk about it? I believe everyone has the right to think what they bloody well please, but to voice some of your deeper thoughts (him) will get people to think you want to act on them (me being the people who thinks he wants to act on them).

I don’t even know if he currently has or has had in the past been with real children/real adults/real adults who look like children. But I know he likes to talk about being with the latter. Maybe he told me because he felt he could finally confide in someone.

It’s all very mind-boggling and I’m trying to see this as rationally as I can. I want to learn about this topic as much as I can and make a well-informed decision before I dismiss the guy as a nutcase and let my friends know about him. His life is about to be impacted in a big way and I just want to make absolutely sure I’m doing the right thing. Sadly, I already know what I wanted to do two weeks ago. But I’m hoping to be enlightened by the board here.

How did crepe and tortilla get thrown in the mix? The guy’s not into sitophilia, not that I know of! :s

33

LL has an unhealthy obsession with bakery items.[/quote]

I think I might be a boulangeriphile. :blush:

34

Your concern is certainly understandable.

Perhaps I missed it, but, I didn’t see where you posted that he said he likes to think about boys. Obviously, if he said that I would be concerned as you are. However, if he merely stated that he likes WOMEN who look like boys, then I don’t see a problem. Well, I do think its creepy that he shared all these thoughts with you in your first meeting. But, chances are, if he was so open about these preferences with you, someone who he knows to be a friend of his friend (the mutual friend), he should well expect his remarks to be conveyed to the mutual friend. So, if you think it best to alert your friend with children (the mutual friend), I don’t think any trust would be breached… and I am betting that the mutual friend is already aware of el creepo’s preferences in WOMEN.

Well, its not OK for adults to think about boys (or girls), IMO. If that is what he said that he thinks about, then I certainly would alert the mutual friend. This can be done discreetly, and I’m sure your mutual friend will appreciate your concern. I would.

Again, if he desires to be with adults who look like children… I don’t see a problem.

I’m sure you’ll do the right thing. Really.

35

Interesting how often this topic has come up lately. I must say it’s a bit of an eye opener as it’s not something I have considered much.

But, the general tone mentioned by some people is: If it’s legal, then it’s ok. Or… the laws decides what is right or wrong. That is, it is ok to be attracted to women who look like boys, as long as the preference for the look of a boy isn’t acted out to actually results in a relationship with a boy. By ‘boy’, I am meaning a non-adult here.

On the surface of it, it’s fairly easy to go along with that, but it got me thinking a bit deeper.

Research tells us that most pedophiles are never caught. And, I have heard some people state that a person is not a pedophile, until he commits a crime.
Ok, so lets think about this a bit.
Does this mean, whatever goes on inside a person’s head is acceptable, as long as he never acts it out?

What concerns me a great deal is that the battle against pedophilia is obviously a tough one. If most of the crimes are never reported, then what it tells me is that there are a hell of a lot of pedophiles out there who avoid detection by either never getting caught, or, never actually acting out their fantasies.
Without arguing the semantics of who actually is a pedophile or not, personally, I believe both of these people need help. It’s always better to prevent, so I disagree with the view that “people can think whatever they like as long as they don’t act on it”. All that means is those unacceptable obsessions will be suppressed from the law and social circles, and will be allowed to be manifested when the ‘thinker’ finds a situation where he can get away with it, knowing full well, that he is more likely to get away with it than get caught.

I find this unacceptable. Are we happy to let people say that it’s OK have an inappropriate lust as long as it remains hidden? Are we not interested in protecting our children?

Here’s an example. Lets say you have an adult friend who gets on really well with kids. One day he comes around to your place and says “Hey, I’m just going to go up to Jimmy’s room and hang out with him for a couple of hours.”
What do we have there? is a law being broken? No. It’s anything pedophillic happening? No, and maybe it will NEVER happen. So, is that situation wrong? Hell yeah, there is something not right there.

What is concerning me the most is this: If we say it’s acceptable for people to think what they want, and even defend the right to do so, are we giving people with inappropriate obsessions a safe haven? If a guy has a preference for women that look like boys, should this be an indication of suppressed inappropriate obsessions or not? I mean, lets face it, if a suppressed pedophile wanted to get as close to his obsession as legally and socially acceptable, what would his preference be? would it be a woman that looks like a boy?

Lets bring Asia into the mix of all this.

It’s a fairly well spoken statement on here, let alone IRL, that Asian girls look younger than they really are. Some people also state in addition to this, that Taiwanese girls can be 18-19, but act like they are 12-13.
So, going back to our friend who has a suppressed pedophilic obsession, wouldn’t the best legal and socially acceptable solution to be to go to the part of the world where the boy-like women are younger looking and acting?

Sure, I accept that there are plenty of guys out there who do have a harmless preference for a woman (or a man) of a certain look. That is not what bothers me (but as an aside, it is interesting how some people target a physical ‘type’ until they find compatibility, rather than the other way around).
What bothers me is that the real battle against pedophilia is not in catching these guys, but in making them see themselves that they have a problem, and dealing with it properly or getting help before the inappropriate obsession is acted out.

If that is something that has come out of this thread, then fantastic. I don’t believe inappropriate behavior is determined by what is legal or not, and I certainly don’t support the social acceptance tone that it is acceptable to think whatever you like, as long as it’s not acted.

Sometimes things make you go Hmmmmm - and maybe we should be paying more attention.

36

How could that not be acceptable?

And just to clarify… In my posts above, I am NOT talking about a guy who likes boys and in order to suppress his unacceptable urges opts for WOMEN who look like boys.

Again, I think there is an ENORMOUS difference between a) boy children and b) adult WOMEN who look like boys.

37

you guys have got it all wrong. if you’re 40 with lots of money marrying an 18 year old girl, you’re okay. but if you don’t have money to make the family rich, get them a greencard, etc, you’re a pervert.

since i couldn’t get an 18 year old when i was 18( since no 18 year old girl likes boys her own age), i’d like one now. i think that would be fair payback for a lonely existence in highschool.

38

Ok then. :wink:

DId he ever say he thinks about boys (as opposed to boyish women)? Perhaps you’re reading too much into the situation? Or maybe you could elaborate on some of what he said. Mentioning young women, teen girls, and boyish women hardly equates to a sexual attraction to boys.

According to your first post, he mostly likes young looking women, and also prefers teen girls:

[quote=“Sweet Cheeks”]I prefer the Olsen twins, the girl that plays Hermione, etc…
I like my women young and fresh…I think tits and ass are overrated. I find really skinny Asian girls hot.[/quote]

What I see here is mostly a preference for youngish women, and also teen girls. What age of teens is unclear, because the Olsens and Emma Watson hit the screen at around what, 11? A quick Google shows the Olsens are now 20. Emma is 16. Has he been lusting after them since they appeared (aged 11), making him a pedophile? I’d alert your friends, sure! Or since they were 13-15, making him a hebephile? Definitely a cause for concern, yes. Or 16-17, which isn’t really all that unusual, even though it’s frowned upon and action might be illegal? Perhaps a cause for concern, especially if you know girls in that age range that he has an opportunity to be near. It would be worth keeping an eye on, especially given his use-'em-and-dump-'em mentality. But given the latter, I’d be warning adult women about him too!

You might or might not have something here. What kinds of questions? You might be reading too much into the boy part, especially. Did he say he likes them, or what? Have you detected any effort on his part to be near them – coach them, be Scout leader, minister to them, act as Big Brother, etc.? Or is this an overactive imagination on your part?

Note that some men don’t like overly feminine gals. Some prefer short hair and no makeup. If they also happen to like slender, petite ones, you might describe those as ‘boyish’, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they like actual boys. That’s a whole different gender, after all. And the Olsens and Emma Watson are hardly boyish, anyway, so it would seem he has a basic hetero bent. I haven’t seen any evidence of a correlation between liking teen girls and liking teen boys, btw. So if you mostly have evidence of the former, I wouldn’t be too quick to jump to conclusions about the latter. Of course it’s possible, just as some with a normal adult-focus are bisexual.

Is it ok to have sexual thoughts about adolescents? Well, from a moral perspective, each person will reach their own conclusions, but I think most will say ‘no’. From a social perspective, different societies throughout history have reached different conclusions, but again I think most have said ‘no’. I think it’s unhealthy, but I doubt that’s under the control of the individual, any more than hetersexuality or homosexuality are under one’s control. Certainly one would hope he would try to suppress them. If they’re suppressed and never acted upon, and the person makes an effort to avoid situations of temptation (e.g., decides to never coach teens) then that’s probably the best you can ask from such an individual. Or if he redirects the impulses through a visually similar but adult target (i.e., thinks about boys while having sex with men or boyish women), that’s probably the healthiest channel he has available to him. It might creep you out to know that’s what he’s doing, but better he do that than focus his actions on his original targets, no? I’m not saying it’s not creepy or it’s ok; I’m just saying that from a clinical perspective it might be the best realistic outcome for an individual with such predilections.

Is it ok to talk about it? Sure, with a therapist! To go farther than that will creep people out, and as you say, might be an indication that he wants to act on these desires. If he can’t keep a lid on his speech, who’s to say he can keep a lid on his willy? It’s certainly an indication that he doesn’t know the limits of social acceptability, and that’s worrying.

Should you be concerned? Probably – but I’m not sure you have enough to go on to risk defamation of character. On the other hand I see other causes for concern too, which I’ve mentioned earlier-- immaturity, indiscretion, and a lack of commitment in relationships. How much concern is really unclear, making deciding what to say or not say unclear. Thus the dilemma.

I’d say chew on it a while.

39

Make a t-shirt.

40

How could that not be acceptable?[/quote]
Again, I disagree. There is more to the health of a person, than just the illegal actions they may or maynot perform. What I should have written after ‘never’ were the words “intends to act it out”.

So are you saying if one if one of your friends got a bit boozed one day and confessed he constantly thinks about underage boys, and what he would like to do to them. He pledges to you that he would never act out these things himself, but he has other friends who he shares his fantasies with more openly. Perhaps he is sounding you out to see if he can expand his network of support.

Is that something you would find acceptable?