People abandon pets in the west too

I don’t mean this to excuse what is happening here, as the pet abandonment problem is serious and reprehensible. But perhaps it can stop the smug superiority that so many fall easily into whenever Taiwan and pets comes up.

People are mean to animals everywhere. It was only about 80 years ago that film makers would use wires to trip running horses, or even send whole herds crashing down the sides of cliffs to get a cool shot.

Taiwan treats it’s animals the way it does because it is pre-modern still in many ways and not because Chinese are inherently any worse than any other group.

And as the Salon article I quote suggests, when confronted with an animal that one’s society has not anthropomorphized (such as dogs and cats) people easily treat them as objects.

[quote]An estimated 1,000 to 10,000 pythons now slither freely throughout southern Florida…

The real problem is that Burmese pythons (aka Asian pythons) are not native to Florida. They’re legal to own but are regularly abandoned in the Everglades by disenchanted owners, who grow wary of caring for one of the world’s biggest snakes. [/quote]

People mocked Disney for making animals act like humans in his movies but perhaps this is what we needed to learn to treat them humanely.

Very true.
Yet it should come as no surprise, we do the same and worse within our own species.
So long as it is condoned in any way shape or form, it will continue.

The UK, commonly referred to as being very animal-friendly and aware of animal rights and welfare issues, regularly experiences incidences of horrific abuse toward non-human animals. Such cases are more easily reported and prosecuted in the UK, but cruelty to animals exists everywhere.

Mucha Man is right; this is not a uniquely local problem; it is a global problem. Fortunately, Taiwan is quickly catching up when it comes to animal welfare and animal protection laws.

mucha man,

forgive me, but i don’t see the point to your post.

people here throw babies in dumpsters on a regular basis. it happens even in my tiny town.

so, of course, people get rid of pythons. if someone can throw their own child into a dumpster, then someone else can certainly throw a python into the everglades.

i think the person throwing a python into the everglades (notwithstanding the exotic species issue), has more heart than a person tossing their new born human into a dumpster.

disney was no saint, granted, but how does anthropomorphizing animals benefit the animals?? it seems it only benefits the human animal. we only save the cute animals…oh, don’t kill the cute dolphins while you harvest the ugly tuna…oh, don’t harm the cute sea turtles while you rake the oceans for your creepy squid.

people need to not only look out for other creatures that we push ourselves upon, but we also need to look out for those among us that get pushed aside. babies in a dumpster is as real as exotic snakes in a new environment.

nobody cared when the dumbasses from europe imported starlings to america that now push out native birds. placental mammals in australia continue to encroach. the almighty chainsaw is the law in the amazon.

where do we start?

jm

I think Muzha Man’s point was simply that pet abandonment isn’t a purely local phenomen … phinomi … phanomin … thing.

of course it is not,

as long as humans in “the most prosperous/developed” country in the world can throw their own babies into a dumpster,… then think of the rate of throwing pets and other animals aside,…for every person that could throw a baby in a dumpster, there must me a thousand that could throw a pet wayside.

if you could dispose of a human baby that you conceived, would it take much more to toss your baby alligator down the toilet?

it’s a question of values, and it applies worldwide for sure.

how dare anyone who considers living creatures valuble, then looks the other way when someone disposes of their baby, to scoff at what goes on ‘elsewhere’.

people that throw their babies into dumpsters get public defenders. those that throw away their pets don’t even make the bottom corner of the last page of the last section of the paper. no one cares. what is wrong with that???!!!

thats all i am saying.

jm

I’ve seen pictures of a dead baby on the side of the road in China…with the locals just walking around it. How long ago was it in the west that people walked around dead babies without a glance? The dark ages maybe? So does that mean that Chinese people are still in the dark ages in comparison to us?

[quote=“JOHN MOSS”]of course it is not,

as long as humans in “the most prosperous/developed” country in the world can throw their own babies into a dumpster,… then think of the rate of throwing pets and other animals aside,…for every person that could throw a baby in a dumpster, there must me a thousand that could throw a pet wayside.

if you could dispose of a human baby that you conceived, would it take much more to toss your baby alligator down the toilet?

it’s a question of values, and it applies worldwide for sure.

how dare anyone who considers living creatures valuble, then looks the other way when someone disposes of their baby, to scoff at what goes on ‘elsewhere’.

people that throw their babies into dumpsters get public defenders. those that throw away their pets don’t even make the bottom corner of the last page of the last section of the paper. no one cares. what is wrong with that???!!!

thats all i am saying.

jm[/quote]

Are you talking about abortion? if so, go somewhere else.

As for pet abandonment, if you understand that it happens everywhere then this thread is not directed at you. Honestly, I don’t see how you failed to see that. It is directed at the many many foreigners in Taiwan who are unaware of their own country’s history of pet abuse and fail to see that the problem in Taiwan is a lack of modernity, not Taiwanese lack of compassion.

My wife has told me horrible stories from her childhood about how animals were treated. To overcome some bad luck in his fortune her brother was supposed to crush a baby chick in his hand when he was 6. He cried and screamed and refused. Finally, the mother, who had not wanted to go along with the stupid ritual either but was persuaded by a stupid aunt, stopped the procedure and never asked him to do it again.

This same woman also once threw a crate of puppies in the Jimgmei River. The crate got stuck in some rocks and she could hear the puppies cry out as they were drowned by the rough water. Overcome with shame and compassion she risked her own life (she can’t swim) to rescue the puppies. She’s been kind to animals ever since.

I’m sure most families have stories like that in their recent past. I’m also sure, that most Taiwanese, like my mother-in-law, can learn to see the errors of the old ways, and learn to treat animals humanely.

I think this thread is a bit of a farce. You can’t compare Taiwan…which has stray dogs on almost EVERY SINGLE FUCKING STREET IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY…with the odd stray you find wandering about in Canada and America.

You can compare Taiwan with the west, because when it comes to animals we do not feel close to, abandonment seems to be a big problem too. If Taiwanese abandon dogs and cats because they feel they are not really part of the family (as many in the west would about snakes) then this is an angle to be exploited by those who wish to see things change.

I have given two reasons why people may abandon animals here which you may not have considered: lack of modernity, and lack of anthropomorphism. I have also given hope that these issues will largely work themselves out over time as they have in all other modern countries. Address my points or bleep. But don’t call this a farce.

Dumped and consequently feral cats are a huge problem in Australia. I’m a cat man myself, but I would not hesitate to shoot one in the wild (I hope I don’t have to make another reversal and back down to Bobepine or Stray Dog anytime soon for this). There are just too many furry little marsupials and birds being wiped out by cats.

The difference with dogs in Australia is that they do tend to catch them, hold them and if they’re not claimed within a couple of weeks, they are put down. Consequently you don’t notice the dumped dog problem. In the country, a stray dog wandering onto a farm would be shot immediately.

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Dumped and consequently feral cats are a huge problem in Australia. I’m a cat man myself, but I would not hesitate to shoot one in the wild (I hope I don’t have to make another reversal and back down to Bobepine or Stray Dog anytime soon for this). There are just too many furry little marsupials and birds being wiped out by cats.

The difference with dogs in Australia is that they do tend to catch them, hold them and if they’re not claimed within a couple of weeks, they are put down. Consequently you don’t notice the dumped dog problem. In the country, a stray dog wandering onto a farm would be shot immediately.

HG[/quote]

The cat culling question is a tough one, but I would prefer to see a CNR approach. But I do understand that cats have become a pest down under, just like Aussies have in England. :wink:

Oh god! Are they shooting them yet?

HG

Who is arguing that the Taiwanese are cruel to animals because they are inherently worse than other groups of people?

Is that an order?

Get over yourself… :unamused:

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Oh god! Are they shooting them yet?

HG[/quote]

Just don’t stare into flashlights and you should be OK.

No. Anyone who abandons a pet lacks compassion… for that animal. Anyone who squashes a bug lacks compassion for that bug. That goes for Taiwanese as well as other folks. Edit: But, what if the person abandoning the pet actually (no matter how erroneously) believes that letting the animal free is an act of compassion?

I am not certain that the reason for a lack of compassion stems from a lack of modernity. Buddhism teaches compassion for all animals, and most taiwanese are to various degrees familiar with Buddhist notions, which have been around for quite a long time.

What do you mean by “modernity”? Taipei is in many ways far more modern than my hometown. Yet, we do not have nearly the problem of abandoned animals in my home town.

Anthropomorphism… that makes more sense to me as a reason for anyone to lack compassion. I don’t go out of my way to kill bugs. But, neither do I fret over their miserable existences.

Thus, IMO, the question is why do some people identify with dogs and cats as family members while others see cats and dogs as just another source of food?

With all respect, the US kills over 5 million dogs a year. One country has abandonment; one has killing with abandon.

A good read

compassion…compassion … an act of compassion?

… compassion … compassion

… compassion. [/quote]

:ponder: Did I just start a tipping effect on F.com about compassion? :smiley: :pray:

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Dumped and consequently feral cats are a huge problem in Australia. I’m a cat man myself, but I would not hesitate to shoot one in the wild (I hope I don’t have to make another reversal and back down to Bobepine or Stray Dog anytime soon for this). There are just too many furry little marsupials and birds being wiped out by cats.

The difference with dogs in Australia is that they do tend to catch them, hold them and if they’re not claimed within a couple of weeks, they are put down. Consequently you don’t notice the dumped dog problem. In the country, a stray dog wandering onto a farm would be shot immediately.

HG[/quote]

Now you’re in trouble, Sir. :wink:

In fact, I think you bring an interesting twist to this discussion. There is a lot to be said about your post, from the way animals are destroyed to the reasons why they are destroyed, and down to questioning why domesticated species end up treated as vermin because they have a negative impact on the natural habitat of other creatures. Australia is a good example of how humans can really screw things up for animals. I’m thinking toads and hares for example, and you mentioned cats.

What I find difficult to swallow, is when animals are destroyed, abused, neglected and dumped for no good reasons.

We rescued a black dog about 3 weeks ago. It had a huge tumor on its chest. The doctor had to shave a circle the size of a rock melon in order to remove the tumor. Big Black is now fully recovered, but his fur has not fully grown yet, so he looks a bit rough. All it is though is just a shaved spot on his body, nothing else. The dog is clean, healthy, defleaed and all. Just an adorable dog too.

Now this guy we call “superman” is our neighbour. We always liked him, he’s always friendly to our dog lucky and he’s just a really nice guy. We call him “superman” because he had a stroke and he can’t walk really well, in fact he more often than not gets around in a wheel chair.

I don’t like him that much anymore. My wife came home about a week ago and she was furious. She had just had a conversation with superman, and he told her that he would like to kill Big Black. :s I was just on my way out the door to go for a walk with the dogs when she came home. As I got out of the elevator, superman was still in the lobby. When he saw Big Black, he exclaimed “Oooooh this dog so dirty!” I got on my knees and hugged Big Black and said “good friend, good friend”, and I put my hand in his mouth to show how inoffensive the dog is, and to show that he’s not dirty and that I would cuddle with this dog anytime. He then pointed to the shaved area on the dog and he said “so sick, so sick” with a disgusted look in his face. I could not help it, I asked him “Are you sick?” He answered “yes.” I replied “I think we should kill you too, then.”

While I agree that things are improving quickly in Taiwan, sometimes I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall. Being told that an animal needs to be put down because he’s got a shaved spot, is a good example of how some people really need to be educated. Telling superman that he should also be put down is maybe not the best way to go about it…

Big Black is house trained, scooter trained and he is very friendly. He was an easy rescue, all my wife had to do is say “come”, and the poor thing hopped on her scooter. It’s pretty clear that he was abandoned because of this tumor he had.

MM mentions the lack of modernisation. I don’t know about that… If modernisation can help people treat our furry friends with more respect and humanity, then fine, but that would be called acculturation, not modernisation.

With all respect, the US kills over 5 million dogs a year. One country has abandonment; one has killing with abandon.

A good read[/quote]

Fine, you win. Good point. So in conclusion the whole human race sucks. And if you ever run someone over with your car…don’t feel guilty about not stopping because the chances are they were shit anyway…being a human and all.

And I know this reads as being sarcastic…but it’s not. Humans are shit.