Pepper spray for dogs?

I had been on several occasion chased by stray dogs during my long weekend rides and got to the point of having thoughts of violently exacting my revenge but sense always get to the better part of me. There’s this 2 stray dogs that inhabits a particular spot on a sloping road somewhere in Jinshan and they always give me a chase like I’m trying to break away in the peloton up in the Au’bisque. The worst part is the slope is positive and they are in the right side of the road. I would sometimes swing to the fast lane but this is dangerous as scooters are always zipping by and one time they would risk a leg or two evading the scoots just to get a bite out of my leg :unamused: .

So, I was thinking of getting: pepper spray, telescopic nightstick, BB gun, staple gun even a nail gun! just to keep those devils at bay.

It’s really taxing for my legs, my lungs and my heart to be chased by beavis and butthead and also very dangerous as motorized vehicles are zipping by at 70KpH.

I can always report them to animal control but I dont know where and I dont know how and too much of a hassle I guess so I lost the interest to do that.

Please advise. Thanks. :bow:

if they chase you, stop. takes the fun out of it.

if they still approach, spray water from your bottle in their faces. bark really loudly and rush them. throw your bike at them. kick them solidly in the ribs if they still look like they want to eat you.

do something aggressive towards them, anything, just don’t run away.

Better yet PM Straydog and he’ll come get them for you.

[quote=“urodacus”]if they chase you, stop. takes the fun out of it.

if they still approach, spray water from your bottle in their faces. bark really loudly and rush them. throw your bike at them. kick them solidly in the ribs if they still look like they want to eat you.

do something aggressive towards them, anything, just don’t run away.[/quote]

Jeez. Please, do not give such advice; you’ll get people hurt. You NEVER raise the level of aggression with a pack of dogs and you NEVER get them into chase mode.

I’ll copy and paste something I wrote in response to someone wanting to whip stray dogs . . .

This was in response to a post a local blooger made on his site. You can read the debate in full here: http://www.thenhbushman.com/2009/03/26/bicycle-riding-and-stray-dogs/

Here’s the advice I gave:

[quote]Hi there.

My name’s Sean McCormack, and I’m the founder of Animals Taiwan, and am now in the process of starting up the Taiwan SPCA. In my spare time, I also help to rehabilitate dogs, including those who are aggressive, fearful, nervous, obsessive, or in other ways in need of calm, assertive leadership. Craig asked me to join in this discussion, as he felt he couldn’t provide the answers to some of your excellent questions and opinions about the stray dog problem.

When I go and train someone with a ‘problem’ dog, what I’m actually looking for is how the person is contributing to, supporting, rewarding the unwanted behaviour – and I always find it. For dogs who I’m told are aggressive toward people or other dogs, I find that the dog is actually following the human’s lead. When the owner changes the picture in his or her head about what the dog is thinking or how the dog is expected to react, we have an instantaneous and seemingly miraculous change in that dog’s behaviour.

A couple of the more notable rehabilitations of late: a dog who was stuck on a rooftop for eight years because of a developed fear of the stairs (he came down and after about 20 minutes and enjoyed a neighbourhood stroll; he now goes up and down with the owner every day, no problem). Another was a dog who was, according to the owner, fearful and aggressive towards other dogs and wanted to attack cats (we had him ignoring cats within five minutes and accepting other dogs within the hour; the next week I had him living with me for a few days, in a room with 11 other dogs, with no problem at all). I also demonstrate that aggressive dogs are usually nothing more than unsure of your intentions, and I have demonstrated this by entering ‘aggressive’ dogs’ cages and sitting calmly with them, allowing chained ‘aggressive’ dogs’ to smell me before letting me walk them; and I’m currently caring for a feral dog with skin disease, who, despite fearful aggressiveness, comes for walks on leash and lets me give her a bath.

How did we achieve that so quickly? We stopped projecting anything but calm assertiveness to the dog. When the owners demonstrated calm assertiveness and were able to keep their own fears and fixations in check, the dogs became calm submissive and followed their owner’s lead. It really is as simple as not projecting your own fears and obsessions onto the dog.

When I read your posts, I could instantly see where the problem lies. As is so often the case, the aggression was unwittingly started by a fearful or aggressive human. Here is how you enter these dogs’ perceived territory, MJ; this is your perception of how things will go (and is what you’re projecting onto these dogs, who can read your body language and smells very well):

“Undisciplined, wild and unpredictable, this dog is more than likely going to chase and attempt to bite, cyclists.”

“The low height is excellent for aerodynamics but it also makes a trike rider more vulnerable to dog attacks.”

“When I ride my trike, I basically ride in fear of dog attack and I am constantly on the lookout for strays (or even owned dogs) that roam the streets. Often, it’s very difficult to just relax and enjoy the ride.”

“Although it’s much higher than the trike, one’s legs and feet are always vulnerable to dog attacks.”

“On the very second day that I rode my new trike, 4 stray dogs came after me in a pack and I had to beat them off using that whip.”

“If I see a dog coming at me, I can have the whip in my hand in about one second.”

“This is what I hate the most – multiple street dogs hanging in a pack.”

“Naruwan, i feel that edgy sensation too. as i said sometimes it’s hard to just relax because i feel like there is a war going on.”

“a couple of days ago i was riding my bike when returning to my home, and one of those strays actually sized me up to take a bite out of my foot as i passed by.”

Can you see what’s happening? You are taking the fear/aggression to these dogs. As any other animal would (including humans) they are responding to your fear and readiness to commit an aggressive act with a clear warning. If you walk into a bar with a weapon and a strong readiness to use it, you will make yourself, by your attitude and body language, a target. If you can control your own fears, MJ, your riding experience will be much more enjoyable. You need to stop seeing these dogs as out to get you. They are giving you clear signals because it’s in their nature to do so, and they will attack if you respond the wrong way (according to their natural protocol, not yours). I can help with that.

[b]“What advice would you give cyclists on this subject?”

Firstly, I am on the side of the cyclist. You should not be attacked or frightened by stray dogs, and they should not be free to act the way they sometimes do. The dogs are doing what they do naturally, defending what they feel is theirs, and the cyclist needs to know how to show the dog, naturally, that he or she has no intent of either harming or being harmed.

Dogs will chase cars and cyclists (and runners) not because they are stupid, but because, like people, they respond to reward. When those cars, scooters, runners, and cyclists race away, they are showing the dog that they are fearful and potential prey. This can send a dominant dog (and his pack) into chase mode, as he will believe that he has the upper hand and the ‘target’ is weak and fleeing. If the target indeed flees, the dog’s behaviour will have been rewarded, and he will do it again.

So how can you stop the chase and potential nip at the heel (a warning; if the dog meant business, he would do far more than this)? This isn’t easy for a fearful or aggressive person to accept, but you need to do nothing. That’s right. Nothing. Stand your ground. Put the bike between yourself and the dog, stand confidently but calmly, and don’t look the dogs in the eyes. Look at the horizon, and tell yourself that you mean no harm but you are claiming this space around you as your own. Project calm assertiveness, and dogs will instantly understand that you are neither threat nor prey. Some may come to sniff you, and this is OK if you can handle it (but don’t let any go behind you). Once they have lost interest, you can slowly and calmly go on your way. If they become interested again, simply stop the bike. Try it in a car first if you want to see the effect not running has.
[/b]
As you have a low bike, MJ, and it’s difficult to get in and out, I would suggest carrying a stick, but only using it to present as a barrier in front of the calm, assertive, non-confrontational you. If you keep the level of aggression down, you will be doing yourself and the next cyclist a big favour.

I believe that carrying a air horn is a great idea, but make sure the sound is deep and you make any soundings brief (in nature, the deeper, shorter sound is that of the dominant animal – long, high-pitched sounds show weakness and submission).

When dogs are approached slowly and calmly (and assertively) they have no reason to attack. The following comment of yours reinforces this:

“i’ve never been attacked while walking by street dogs but i’ve been growled at by quite a few.”

I was interested to read this:

“When I was eight years old, I was attacked by a dog that hid under a car in our neighbor’s driveway. The neighborhood kids were in a big game of “Hide and Seek” and that car was the “base.” I successfully eluded the person who was “it” and searching for us. I made it back to base and a few seconds after touching the car, I felt the dog clamp down on my right leg – totally without warning. Needless to say, it scared the hell out of me. I went home and my mother called the police. The dog bite had drawn blood and the police took the dog away and had it destroyed.

To this day I want all dangerously aggressive dogs to meet the same fate.

Please note that a dog being aggressive in the defense of it’s home and family against a bad guy is a different situation.”

Now I can see where your fear comes from, and your disliking dogs. If I explained to you that the dog was probably frightened and giving you a warning nip, I don’t know if that would help you to see the situation differently. A real dog attack is very different (there are different levels of dog bites, and a nip is one of the lowest, though still scary and painful, and you have my sympathy). She was probably trying to scare you away as she was scared herself. Ironically, you now have the same fear that she had, and have been dealing with it in a very similar fashion. Luckily, no one is calling for your extermination because of it.

I hope this information helps, and I am very happy to answer any questions and even demonstrate these techniques for you. This is the best advice I can give you, as there will always be dogs out there, so you may as well learn how to deal with them.

Best regards,

Sean McCormack[/quote]

I now suggest carrying an umbrella instead of a stick, thanks to this great demonstration which you should find interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXvWNpCpvHc

See for yourself the difference in the dog’s reaction depending on what the person ‘being attacked’ does. Note that when the guy throws up a knee, the dog bites. When he stays calm, the dog is less aggressive. When he runs, the dog chases and nips. And when he stands confidently with a barrier between him and the dog, the dog does nothing and walks away.

Hopefully you will see that running/cycling away or getting aggressive will make the dogs more aggressive. If you want to take control of the situation, take control of yourself first.

solid advice, StrayDog, and it’s well-tried and tested (for one dog or a pair, maybe not a whole pack). anyway, it’s far better than pepper spray.

confront them. most chasing dogs are pussies just out for fun. don’t give them the upper hand.

Yes, a whole pack. Some of us, like Marboulette and myself, have plenty of experience with packs of stray dogs, and can tell you that you don’t want to initiate chase mode or raise the level of aggression with a pack of dogs. You wouldn’t want one or two dogs chasing or biting you, so you certainly wouldn’t want a whole pack doing it.

Your best response is as I posted above. You pepper spray a dog, that dog will scream in pain and that will get the rest more excited and more dangerous; also, some dogs will get more aggressive when pepper sprayed.

Hopefully Muzha Man will pipe in, as he was confronted by a pack of very wild dogs in some remote part of the world and followed my advice to a tee with very happy consequences.

Cyclists shouldn’t be hounded. That is wrong. And people who leave their dogs loose to do that should be educated and, if need be punished. The dogs are doing what they think they should do and what they have been encouraged to do by every cyclist who gave them a chase or passerby who got aggressive with them.

I’ll happily come and demonstrate to the OP with those two dogs if someone would be kind enough to photograph or video it.

As stray says, I have used his advice many times to protect myself against attacks by wild dogs. Two years ago I was in far western Tibet preparing to do the kora around Mt Kailash. This is one of the most remote places in the world and wild dogs are feared. Just a few months before I arrived a woman had been killed as she attempted to do the kora alone.

I was out walking in the hills trying to get acclimated when a pack of 10 or so wild dogs suddenly sat up about 150m away and then came charging over. I did not run or throw rocks at them but stood calmly with my hiking pole in front of me. It was hard to do but perhaps I was being given the patience of the Buddha. :wink:

The dogs surrounded me, yelping and gnashing their teeth in the most ferocious and terrifying manner you can imagine. I had to keep turning to keep the ones behind from getting too close but I never lost my calm nor made any threatening gestures. To keep up my spirits I talkd aloud. “Oh ho, what a mean bunch of dogs you are. Oh , ha ha, bark bark bark. Oh yeah, that’s going to scare me.” After less than a minute of this the dogs began to cool their heels and then quite suddenly the anger and aggression was gone and they all just turned and trotted off back to their grounds.

A few hours later on the return I passed by the area again. The dogs saw me and jumped up. But then they just sat down again and did not come over or even bark. Obviously they recognized me and knew I was no threat.

I have used this technique many times in Tibet and China in places that other travellers have reported the dogs as being wild and aggressive.

In one notorious temple in Yushu I was walking down the monastery steps when a massive Tibetan dog starting barking aggressively. I didn’t even bother to stop this time but just kept walking toward him in a calm manner, talking softly and blinking in his direction. When I was about 3m away the dog stepped aside and sat quietly as I passed. Then I turned back and looked at him and clicked my tongue and patted my leg. His face suddenly lit up and he ran over and let me pat him. A monk walked by at that moment and there was a moment of terror on his face as he thought the dog was eating me. When he saw what was happening his face went comical as if he couldn’t believe it. Given the traveller’s reports I have read about the temple I am probably the only visitor who was ever able to do this.

So how about Taiwan? I ride a lot and have had dogs chase me. Usually I don’t even bother to stop now as they lose steam when they see I am not interested or afraid. When the occassional dog is more aggressive I stop, put the bike between me and him and wait for him to lose interest, all the whole remaining calm and non-threatening.

Staying calm works, but you have to believe it can work for it to work. :wink:

of course, if it’s a Pomeranian or a silky terrier, you should just do everyone a favour and step on it.

Try and stop this dog with an umbrella…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC7ln917oiU&feature=related

The fear thing goes for horses too, they read body language like a deaf person does.

Tibet temple dogs are notorius
Mucha Man that was some good thinking.

Riding in Mao Kong back in the day the tea farmers would just let their dogs run wild. I never got nipped but my friend did.

Take the chase out of the game and the dogs usually got bored.

Wow, thanks StrayDog and Mucha Man, this has been Buddha-like enlightening for me. :notworthy:

I really have to try hard to practice this ‘technique’. Being traumatized by dog attacks when I was a kid, may have acquired a phobia for gnarling canine aggression.

I may fear aggressive dogs but I still love the playful, obedient ones.

Glad you’re considering the advice. I really am happy to come demonstrate.

I can come too, to show you exactly how to get Stray Dog out of your house without too many cuts and bruises and with your fridge still basically intact. (The trick is to show dominance without aggression. I’ve had people fending him off with a long pole, poking at him and such. Trust me, its quite unneccesary. And he likes having his nipples stroked.)

I can come too, to show you exactly how to get Stray Dog out of your house without too many cuts and bruises and with your fridge still basically intact. (The trick is to show dominance without aggression. I’ve had people fending him off with a long pole, poking at him and such. Trust me, its quite unneccesary. And he likes having his nipples stroked.)[/quote]

It’s OK, I’ll take the fridge raid and the nipple stroking any day over leg humping and territorial pissing. :no-no:

In South Africa, pretty much every household has a dog or two, generally because we love dogs, but they’re often used as ‘protection’ against thievorous bastards.

I was walking home a while ago, and some fella had left his gate open. I’d passed the house often before and the massive Alsatian always charged the gate aggressively. This time he came at me. I didn’t run, didn’t charge, just stood stock-still and looked at him as if to say ‘no worries, mate’.

He charged to within three feet, then stopped, and went back into the yard.

The owner ran out and apologised, I walked on.

On a side note: if a dog did get brutal on me, I always thought “Do I get brutal back? Life and death? Eat or be eaten?”

Gentlemen
Thank you very much for your advice.
I had actually gone out and already bought some pepper spray last week!
I read your advice on the none violent ways to handle dogs and …

IT WORKED!

I rode over Yang Ming Shan to Jinshan and then along the coast road back to Danshui.

One dog darted out from the mountain forest and started to chase. Instead of being scared or aggressive towards it, I was calm, turned and faced it and it simply stopped, stood for a moment and then walked back to its place.

A second, bigger dog along the coast seemed protective of a a sidewalk/path and snarled as I approached him. I stopped a couple of meters in front of him, looked at him and in a moment he just kind of walked away

I bike alone and at less crowded times (like in the coldish-rain today) so I have had problems in the past.

So thanks again. Useful advice, indeed.

Stu

Hey, Stu, hats off to you for applying what you read here, and thanks for reporting your success.

You did great, though do remember not to stare at the dog, as this can be seen as a threat, which will make most dogs retreat, but will cause a truly dominant dog to meet the challenge head on.

Glad you found the advice useful. :thumbsup:

How can I stop my hamster biting me?

This doesn’t have much to do with cycling.

I’ve been riding in Taiwan since the early '90s and have had many a dog come chasing after me. A shout or turning back to confront them has always worked fine. They are almost all much more afraid of you than the other way around. Pepper spay is really unnecessary.

I should say so. Would you like your ovaries sprinkled with spices just for barking?