You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
At your expense? How so?[/quote]
Well they’re burning Qurans to make a point. So their actions are a detriment to practicing Muslims not to mention increasing the spread of hatred. But that really doesn’t matter, does it?
You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
What does that have to do with Tigerman’s comments? Stating “and the fucking Muslims [anything]” is bigoted (imagine “and the fucking Christians…”, “and the fucking Jews…”, “and the fucking blacks…”), maybe not intentionally, thus my comment about qualifying it. Free speech exists but last I checked there are rules on this website for explicitly bigoted comments.
I think I agreed with someone earlier that this whole thing actually makes a great case for not being there at all. I tend to forget the bigger picture…fuckin’ politicians and their useless wars…
You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
At your expense? How so?[/quote]
Well they’re burning Qurans to make a point. So their actions are a detriment to practicing Muslims not to mention increasing the spread of hatred. But that really doesn’t matter, does it?[/quote]
To you personally? To the detriment of practicing Muslims? Pissing them off is not that big of a detriment. I seriously doubt this act is going to affect you personally. I also don’t think it’s going to do much in the way of spreading the hatred either. Kind of preexisting condition if you ask me. You know, this would be a lot less of an issue if the media simply decided to give this event the attention it deserved.
One thing should be abundantly clear from this episode. There’s no point whatsoever to a society which would ban mosques and burn Qurans forcibly remaking a repressive, intolerant Muslim society in its own image as it’s nothing more than a painful exercise in self-delusion.
I Googled “quran burning imam reaction” and this was the top hit. Naturally, the rest of the results aren’t nearly as pleasant.
Tigerman, I like my analogy far more than yours. “I have no desire to make windows into men’s souls” isn’t nearly as pithy as “fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke”, and Jerry’s wit speaks to us more directly, but there’s a whole lot more distance between the earlier statement and trouble, than there is between “fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke” and “the fucking Muslims disrespect every other religion, too. Fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke” and, again, “fuck the Jews/Blacks/gays/Republicans/Canadians,” particularly if rephrased to be more jocular.
“Free speech, however, ain’t no joke.” It shouldn’t be. But the uses made of that freedom, and the unintended consequences, sometimes are. Then the jokes on us.
(Of course, many thoughtful religious folk will read that last bit, nod, smile, and ask about your ox being gored.)
Seems like a lot of pressure being directed on this guy now. He says he’s going to pray about it. I’ll give him credit, if obviously a first-class nutjob, he seems to be acting out of sincere belief. It could be a publicity stunt I guess, though I doubt it’s worth the kind of attention he’s getting and the potential negative consequences.
Hopefully his prayers will reveal that God desires mutual respect between all religions. That goes for Muslims as well.
Out of curiosity I googled “muslim burn bible -koran -quran” Didn’t find much in the way of specifics, though a fair bit of noise. One story from an unknown source about Hamas attacking a church. Just wondering.
[quote=“Gman”]
To you personally? To the detriment of practicing Muslims? Pissing them off is not that big of a detriment. … I also don’t think it’s going to do much in the way of spreading the hatred either. Kind of preexisting condition if you ask me. You know, this would be a lot less of an issue if the media simply decided to give this event the attention it deserved.[/quote]
Pissing people may not be a detriment, at least to immature minds, but it is a detriment. This constant need for to terrorize “minorities” in the guise of free speech doesn’t bode well for creating a ethos of peace. And if it’s a preexisting condition does it make sense to continue to practice what brought on the condition in the first place. Makes about much sense as continuing to smoke with lung cancer.
[quote]I seriously doubt this act is going to affect you personally. [/quote] And you know this how?
By the way , your last sentence doesn’t make sense. Are you saying it wouldn’t be an issue if media decided to give the event less attention? Or that it does deserve attention?
You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
What does that have to do with Tigerman’s comments? Stating “and the fucking Muslims [anything]” is bigoted (imagine “and the fucking Christians…”, “and the fucking Jews…”, “and the fucking blacks…”), maybe not intentionally, thus my comment about qualifying it. Free speech exists but last I checked there are rules on this website for explicitly bigoted comments.[/quote]
What are you talking about? Seriously. I’m talking about free speech in America and you’re going on about…?
You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
What does that have to do with Tigerman’s comments? Stating “and the fucking Muslims [anything]” is bigoted (imagine “and the fucking Christians…”, “and the fucking Jews…”, “and the fucking blacks…”), maybe not intentionally, thus my comment about qualifying it. Free speech exists but last I checked there are rules on this website for explicitly bigoted comments.[/quote]
What are you talking about? Seriously. I’m talking about free speech in America and you’re going on about…?[/quote]
I’m asking why you quoted my statement about Tigerman’s remark. The only thing I can think of is it was in reference to Freedom of Speech. What I’m “going on about” is people spewing angry bigoted remarks like “the fucking Muslims” - if that’s what Tigerman intended - is bullshit wrong on this website, and you can bet if someone posted “the fucking Jews” I’d be contacting moderators. It’s one thing to say “the fucking terrorists” or “the fucking Nazis” where their causes are clearly hate-based and violent, but to say “the fucking Muslims” is bigoted.
[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Gman”]
To you personally? To the detriment of practicing Muslims? Pissing them off is not that big of a detriment. … I also don’t think it’s going to do much in the way of spreading the hatred either. Kind of preexisting condition if you ask me. You know, this would be a lot less of an issue if the media simply decided to give this event the attention it deserved.[/quote]
Pissing people may not be a detriment, at least to immature minds, but it is a detriment. This constant need for to terrorize “minorities” in the guise of free speech doesn’t bode well for creating a ethos of peace. And if it’s a preexisting condition does it make sense to continue to practice what brought on the condition in the first place. Makes about much sense as continuing to smoke with lung cancer. [/quote]
I’m not sure I would consider the Muslim world a minority. I think characterizing this clown burning a pile of Quarans as “terrrorizing” is quite an exaggeration.
I don’t know, of course I never said I knew did I?
I suppose it could be confusing if you believe there’s a rational case for it getting even more media attention than it already has.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Jaboney”]
I Googled “quran burning imam reaction” and this was the top hit. Naturally, the rest of the results aren’t nearly as pleasant.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity I googled “muslim burn bible -koran -quran” Didn’t find much in the way of specifics, though a fair bit of noise. One story from an unknown source about Hamas attacking a church. Just wondering.[/quote]I am not surprised that your search didn’t turn up much.
If one’s own side is dominant (militarily, economically, socially), and all the action is happening far away, squirrelly types are going to be pretty much restricted to symbolic acts: like burning books.
If one’s own side is weak, there’s no grand organization advancing your interests, and violence close at hand, I would expect little action to be symbolic. It’d be direct, and more likely violent, or more likely to lead to violence.
Didn’t think it needed to be specified. But, of course by “fucking Muslims” I refer only to those Muslims who can’t take a joke. You know, the ones who scream bloody murder if you make fun of Mohammed or burn a Koran. Why would I care about Muslims who don’t care what I do or say, so long as it doesn’t cause direct and reasonable harm?
[quote=“Gman”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Gman”]
To you personally? To the detriment of practicing Muslims? Pissing them off is not that big of a detriment. … I also don’t think it’s going to do much in the way of spreading the hatred either. Kind of preexisting condition if you ask me. You know, this would be a lot less of an issue if the media simply decided to give this event the attention it deserved.[/quote]
Pissing people may not be a detriment, at least to immature minds, but it is a detriment. This constant need for to terrorize “minorities” in the guise of free speech doesn’t bode well for creating a ethos of peace. And if it’s a preexisting condition does it make sense to continue to practice what brought on the condition in the first place. Makes about much sense as continuing to smoke with lung cancer. [/quote]
I’m not sure I would consider the Muslim world a minority. I think characterizing this clown burning a pile of Quarans as “terrrorizing” is quite an exaggeration. [/quote]
They are a minority in America. And yes, a mob mentality manifesting can be terrorizing.
[quote]
I suppose it could be confusing if you believe there’s a rational case for it getting even more media attention than it already has.[/quote] True. But remember…if it bleeds it leads…
You ought to qualify that statement if you’re not referring to all Muslims.[/quote]
It’s my understanding that free speech in America is actually about preventing the government from infringing on my rights…Not a bunch of fanatics being able to do what they want at my expense.[/quote]
What does that have to do with Tigerman’s comments? Stating “and the fucking Muslims [anything]” is bigoted (imagine “and the fucking Christians…”, “and the fucking Jews…”, “and the fucking blacks…”), maybe not intentionally, thus my comment about qualifying it. Free speech exists but last I checked there are rules on this website for explicitly bigoted comments.[/quote]
What are you talking about? Seriously. I’m talking about free speech in America and you’re going on about…?[/quote]
I’m asking why you quoted my statement about Tigerman’s remark. The only thing I can think of is it was in reference to Freedom of Speech. What I’m “going on about” is people spewing angry bigoted remarks like “the fucking Muslims” - if that’s what Tigerman intended - is bullshit wrong on this website, and you can bet if someone posted “the fucking Jews” I’d be contacting moderators. It’s one thing to say “the fucking terrorists” or “the fucking Nazis” where their causes are clearly hate-based and violent, but to say “the fucking Muslims” is bigoted.[/quote]
Yea it was in reference to freedom of speech in America…not on this board. As for the other remark you have to take that up with the author or the mods.
Oh, heck. I’m no bigot and you know it. I just think that my freedom of speech trumps some asshole’s right to go ballistic because he doesn’t like what i say.
Unintended consequences? Like what? Do you really think the nutball pastor is to blame if some crazy Muslim fanatic decides to kill more US troops or civilians somewhere because he is enraged by the burning of a few books? And why should we tiptoe around unreasonable sensitivities? Where do we draw a line? Some of those assholes are offended to the point of bloody murder when a woman asserts her individuality. Really, fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke.
[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Gman”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Gman”]
To you personally? To the detriment of practicing Muslims? Pissing them off is not that big of a detriment. … I also don’t think it’s going to do much in the way of spreading the hatred either. Kind of preexisting condition if you ask me. You know, this would be a lot less of an issue if the media simply decided to give this event the attention it deserved.[/quote]
Pissing people may not be a detriment, at least to immature minds, but it is a detriment. This constant need for to terrorize “minorities” in the guise of free speech doesn’t bode well for creating a ethos of peace. And if it’s a preexisting condition does it make sense to continue to practice what brought on the condition in the first place. Makes about much sense as continuing to smoke with lung cancer. [/quote]
I’m not sure I would consider the Muslim world a minority. I think characterizing this clown burning a pile of Quarans as “terrrorizing” is quite an exaggeration. [/quote]
They are a minority in America. And yes, a mob mentality manifesting can be terrorizing.
[quote]
I suppose it could be confusing if you believe there’s a rational case for it getting even more media attention than it already has.[/quote] True. But remember…if it bleeds it leads…[/quote]
The focus of this thread really is about the reaction of Muslims outside the US. I think the uproar and bigotry surrounding the so called 911 Mosque is a far more worrying issue to Muslims in the US or at least it should be. Let’s agree to disagree on this shall we? I think we both agree that the burning is a pretty stupid thing to do regardless.
Politbureau, whether you intended it or not, that is one of the better descriptions of organized religion I’ve come across.
