Pets or Something Else...Live Bloodbanks?

We’ve been dealing with this vet because he’s an excellent surgeon and he’s quite proficient and experienced with animals. Another reason is he’s giving us excellent discounts because the animals we bring to him are all strays.

This place is an animal hospital with kennel services, grooming services etc. That’s where Lucky was treated for a couple months as well as many other animals you may have seen in my posts.

On the second floor, they have a room with many kennels where they keep strays, injured animals and such. Back when Lucky was staying there, I would walk most friendly dogs whenever I went there to walk Lucky which was just about everyday.

It’s been over six months now since I started visiting dogs there. Like I said, most dogs there are sick or injured and they need to rest. Being kennelled is necessary for many of them who are administered fluid treatment or for the dogs that have had surgery.

Two of the dogs there, Hulk and Clifford(That’s what we named them)have now been kenneled for 6 months and God knows how long they’ve been in there prior to the last six months. At first I thought they were waiting to be adopted so I even posted signs trying to find a home for Hulk. I did not post for Clifford because he’s terrified of people, I suspect he’s been kennelled all of his life since puppy-hood. It took a solid month before I was even able to get Clifford to sniff my hand. After three months or so I was able to take him out for short walks. Hulk on the other hand, despite being over 100 pounds behaves like a puppy. Showing signs of stress and severe frustration from this horrible life he lives.

These dogs are both huge and they can’t stand up in the kennels. They have to sit on a metal grill 24/7. Absolutely gorgeous dogs too, so sad.

So here’s the crux, these dogs are owned by my vet. They are his dogs and about three months ago when they asked me NOT to walk these two dogs, I snapped and refused. They told me that the concern was that the dogs can get worms and other diseases from going outside…My response was a question. I asked"So as a veterinary hospital, do you recommend everyone who comes here with their dog to not let the animals exercise and to keep them kenneled 24/7?" They did not answer the question but they did let me walk the dogs whenever I wanted to after that.

As you read this, Hulk and Clifford are suffering. Their lives is miserable, they never get exercise. NEVER. They live in a smelly room full of barking and sick dogs confined to a kennel that is too small for them.

I want to find homes for these dogs. I want to free them from this torture. I want to talk to the vet and explain that this is animal cruelty.

What do you suggest?

Thanks in advance on behalf of Hulk and Clifford.

bobepine

BTW, I realise that a lot of dogs go through kennelled life here…Problem is these dogs are owned by the very person who’s supposed to educate people on how to properly care for our pets…It’s a cultural thing here, they feel that keeping the animal safe from harm is doing them a favor.

Someone has to say something…

bobepine

What kind of wacked out logic is that? So, by his line of thinking, he should also keep his own kids in cages inside and never let them leave the premises or come into contact with any other kids because they might get sick? WTF :loco: … poor dogs. But from what you’ve said, I doubt this vet would give his “pets” up for adoption to anyone… Sad situation.

Is there a veterinary association you can complain to?

I assume there probably is some kind of headquarters for vets in Taiwan. Just an assumption.

Problem is… that would make the vet lose face severely and I do not desire that. Also, I do not wish to have bad relations with vets here and taking legal steps against any vets will do just that.

I understand that things are done differently here, and while I think it’s torture to do that to an animal, he thinks he’s doing them a favor. Out of simple respect for his beliefs, I think I should talk to him first. Problem is that I have no clue how to bring this up without making him lose face. He’s a good man, he’s helped countless animals in the last fifteen years. People drop dogs and kittens on his doorstep all the time. He brings health to them if they are sick, he feeds them just like he does for his own dogs. Just a wonderful guy. Best way to make him smile is to show him a picture of an animal he helped. He loves to see the little guys healthy and I think that’s why he does such a good job.

But…

He doesn’t understand that keeping a dog in a kennel is cruel. A dog is not like a hamster. Even hamsters are allowed more living space.

bobepine

I know you have already asked him why he does this, but if i was you i’d ask him again.

when he says, “to keep my dog safe” show him how good your animals are that go out. then ask, “but doesn’t keeping them in an enclosed space affect there musle growth, etc”

Keep it light and ask questions, keep it so he is educating you, but you are pointing out fact within the questions.

Isn’t it better for an animal to get regular exercise?
isn’t it better for animals and people to build up thier emune systems?
Can’t an animals internal organs be affected by no exercise, ie thier lungs?

I notice my dogs are so much happier and healthier after a run.

what ever you do don’t confront him head on. Don’t act like you know more than he does, even if it is true.
plant seeds and let them grow in his mind. don’t give up. i’m sure if he’s as nice as you say he is, he’ll come around in his own time, but a lot quicker if he doesn’t feel threatened.
good luck

I was just about to make a post about this same topic. I might still…anyway.

I’d suggest using another comparison. For example…in China there are many orphans…thousands and thousands of little girls without homes…because of the one child rule…and families wanting a boy. So ask your vet if some family decided to take in one of these orphans off of the street…only to lock them in a bathroom…24/7. Would that be helping the orphan or hurting it? Maybe get someone to write it out in Chinese…all he has to do is walk them once a day…at least.

<edit: just read ukbikerchic’s post above mine…hers seems the more “correct” way to go about it. My way might just piss him off…even though he’d see the truth in it…he’d refuse to believe it…because that would make him the “bad guy” and no one truly wants to see themself that way…

P.S. What’s an emune? :wink: >

hey i’m best known for my bad spelling, and why would i change now, heck i’m only an English teacher after all. :unamused:

ok ok i’ll try and use a dictionary before i post, it just takes sooooooo much time. Isn’t it much more fun when you have to guess what i’m talking about.

[quote=“bobepine”]We’ve been dealing with this vet because he’s an excellent surgeon and he’s quite proficient and experienced with animals. Another reason is he’s giving us excellent discounts because the animals we bring to him are all strays.
[/quote]

Sounds like the doctor in our community. Genial chap but seems completely unable to grasp that when you buy pets you have to look after him. God help his patients. Someone confronted him about this to which he apparently replied, ‘dogs are smart. They find their own food.’ No they don’t, buddy. They find MY dog’s food to the point where I have to sit on the larger ones and physically restrain them for mine to get a feed. They are so desperately hungry that even the smaller ones will try to fight my pretty large dog for scraps. I now have to leave two water bowls out which get refilled every few hours because they are in use by so many dogs. From what I gather he has brought somewhere near 20 dogs into this community and has single-handedly accounted for an enormous problem with strays in the area.

I’m not an animal lover by any stretch but look after three strays here because nobody else will. The others have to fend for themselves and many of them die of malnutrition, fighting injuries or disease. I certainly would not bring any dogs here from outside because there are already far too many. I go running with my three, bathe them, feed them and have any serious injuries taken care of but that’s it (yes, they’re neutered too). I don’t even let them inside the house because I’m completely heartless but everyone says how happy and friendly they are and all it takes is some care and attention each day… so why can’t he grasp that? I think it’s telling that the three dogs he keeps caged up outside are all extremely violent and have a phobia of sticks…

And what the hell ARE you supposed to do when dealing with people like that?

That’s what I did today. I asked four questions once I managed to have him come to the second floor to look at another dog and once we were just about leaving the kennel room.

I asked him if Hulk and Clifford were his dogs as I pointed to them. He answered “yes.” I asked if the dogs live in the kennels. He answered “yes.” I followed with asking him if the dogs ever get out of the kennels. Slightly embarrassed, he answered “no”.

It was hard to hide my feelings but I did my best. I then asked if he wanted me to help him trying to find families for them. The answer was one I was not expecting at all… He said that he needs to keep the dogs because he uses them for their blood. He draws blood from them “to save other dogs.”

I was literally speechless and I felt like I was screaming at the same time. I mumbled “I understand” very quietly. He made me repeat and I said the same two words a bit louder, “I understand.” It was the end of this conversation.

The bloody dogs are kenneled, live blood-banks… I am so upset with this you have no idea. These dogs are my friends… :frowning:

bobepine

I have no idea what to say to this, I don’t know how i would react, but knowing my bad temper i would explode and threaten to report him and let all his customers know that he does this to these poor defenceless animals. I know this isn’t the answer to the problem, but he has to realize that it is wrong.

I still don’t understand, taking blood isn’t that bad, we do it when we give blood, but why do they have to be kept in cages, why can’t they live a happy life and on occasions give blood. It is rediculous.

I feel your anger and pain and i wish i had some advice to give. Keep at him is all i can say, everytime you go in there, let him know that the animals look unhappy and isn’t it a shame that they are treated like this. What ever you do though don’t go with the comment “In my country, or in other countries…” this really does aggravate the situation.

I hope this situation can come to a happy closure.

Jeeeeezus. :astonished: There must surely be some kind of veterinary code (the equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath) that this is seriously violating.

What on earth goes through this man’s mind? Live bloodbanks. God. Imagine if a doctor kept people like this…

Our vet uses his own dogs as blood donors, but they have the run of the surgery and get exercised several times a day. That your vet can consider this ethical is beyond me.

Another vet we have used used to have an orangutan in a cage - a tiny cage. It was in there for years; he thougth he was helping it. I could cry.

I often think that we should be trying to pets on the street…as opposed to putting strays into homes…considering how the “pets” are treated here.

In Canada would I worry about how the dog is going to be treated? Well, not much. Here? Here I’d have to check up on the dog just to make sure…ahh…who am I kidding…here if I had any real connection with the dog I just woudn’t give it to a Taiwanese home…unless they themsleves were proved to me that they weren’t “normal”…sorry if that sounds racist. I’d be more comfortable putting it on the street than in a Taiwan home.

Which leads me to my current problem…soon the puppy in my house will have its metal pin taken out of its leg…and then what? The plan was to put it on the street…but I’ve been walking it and it knows where I live…so I’m guessing it’ll just sit in front of my door and cry all day.

Can’t give the dog to Taiwanese…can’t put it on the street…I’ve been toying with the idea of putting it to sleep. But seems odd spending the money making it healthy…only to put it to sleep. I think everyone shoudl get a dog…ONE DOG. Or at least one dog per person…a family could handle more than one. But I’m alone…and three is really pushing it. And all the while there is a stray outside my home that I’m in love with…best dog ever. And there’s nothing I can do to improve on it’s stray dog lifestyle…but to be honest…its life isn’t that bad.

Mordeth, don’t rule out a Taiwanese owner so quickly. Yes, many of them do keep their dogs in those awful cages for their whole lives, and I think I’d agree that living on the street is better than spending your life in a cage in which you can hardly even turn around -

BUT there are certainly many Taiwanese pet owners who don’t treat their pets like this. A pub I often go to is owned by a Taiwanese guy, and he has a beautiful dog which runs around the pub all the time. The puppies that I fostered a while back were taken by Taiwanese owners, they are fully grown now, and they enjoy the freedom of roaming around their respective owners’ houses and are exercised regularly.

Look for a home for the puppy, just make sure you ask questions of whoever wants to take the pup. Tell them that you’re gonna do a follow up in a few months and that if the dog is in a cage, you’ll take it away from them. Don’t put it to sleep, give it a chance.

I can comprehend with your feelings mordeth but I think trapjaw speaks wisdom here. I know quite a few dogs and cats cared for by Taiwanese and these animals are happy and very well looked after. I also agree with you, life on the street isn’t near as bad as living in a kennel.

My mechanic has the ugliest dog. This dog is always roaming outside at his shop although he never strays very far. That dog is extremely friendly and he doesn’t display any signs of being treated badly, in fact it’s really darn cute to see him doing all kinds of tricks for his master. We adopted quite a few animals to Taiwanese and all of them except two pups which we had to take back are now happy and healthy dogs.

We adopted out a young pup to a foreign couple and they took him outside without a leash and it got hit by a scooter. Rest in peace Miso. It was an unfortunate accident and the couple in question was devastated but at the same time a young pup should not be walked without a leash in the city. This said, errors in judgement are common when caring for animals and everyone regardless of our native culture sometimes fall on the sorrow end of things. Such is life.

There is a Kaohsiung veterinarian association and maybe I need to write a letter to them but I want to try to talk to the vet again before I take any legal actions to save Hulk and Clifford. If that doesn’t work, then maybe a letter and a petition signed by all members of ATK and their friends may have some weight. One day at the time.

It was recommended to me via pm to try and convince the vet to let the dogs free around the hospital so that they have a better quality of life while their blood can still be used to help other dogs. I will reply here because it may give some of you guys an idea of what these dogs have gone through and are still going through.

Hulk is over 100 pounds, he’s so frustrated in his kennel that when I let him out, he goes nuts. Running wild, clumsy, jumping, scratching and right out of control. I suspect he may calm down eventually if he doesn’t have to be kenneled anymore but not without causing damages, knocking things and possibly people over. In other words his emotional state due to high levels of frustration makes him a very difficult pet.

Clifford has never been free. :frowning: He grew up in that kennel and he is afraid of anything that moves. More than afraid, he’s frightened and the only thing that seems to help him calm down is when he’s in his kennel. If I open his kennel and move back he’ll come out but as soon as I move he goes back into it. If I close his kennel, he freaks out, running back and forth in the kennel room. The first time I took him for a walk, he was scared of cars, scooters, dogs, people. He had never been out for a walk for the first year of his life, he had never seen cars, he had never smelled grass. :frowning: His emotional state is worse than Hulk. The damages caused to this animal will not be helped with medicine. He needs someone to spend a whole lot fo time with him to reassure him and give him faith. Faith he lost long ago as caged puppy who became a caged adult dog deprived of human contact and activity.

Both Hulk and Clifford are showing coordination and motor skills deficiencies. They are unable to run fast because for too long now they have been inactive and crammed in a kennel too small for them to even stand up.

A picture is worth a thousand words they say…Next time I visit them I will film them to show you guys their behaviour and what I’m talking about. It will save me trying to find the right words and you will understand what I mean.

These dogs need help, they need a voice.

bobepine

Here’s some videos of Hulk and Clifford. It’s not good footage because I filmed it and because it’s filmed with a 3.2 mega pixel pocket camera.

Hulk is the light coloured one and Clifford is the reddish dog. Notice in this clip (the first one) that you will hear Clifford panting and breathing very heavy. Near the end of the clip, just before he lays down and I pet him, I close his kennel so that he can’t go in it. That’s when he panics and start spinning on the linoleum, not knowing which direction to go. Keep in mind that I filmed that yesterday, it took me a month to be able to pat that animal and I now have been visiting him for 4 months. :s

youtube.com/watch?v=oGR49x5CwLE

In this clip, notice at the beginning that Clifford is scared to get out of his kennel. Once I position my self between him and his kennel, he seems to want to go back in it because it’s the only thing he knows. Outside of that kennel, he’s plain frightened. The same if I take him out on a leash. He breathes heavily the whole time to accommodate his accelerated heart rate which is often seen in dogs who are put in distress situations.

youtube.com/watch?v=41xTWPwwcvs