PhD Princeton Professor in Taiwan Indicted for Obscenity

[bismarck]

Maybe it’s just silly season, but it seems it’s not restricted to Taiwan.

[quote]Shareholder wants Tito to apologise (2008-09-28)
Sapa

South African Reserve Bank shareholder’s lawyer has asked governor Tito Mboweni to apologise for a comment made at the bank’s annual general meeting. At the AGM, held on September 19, Mario Pretorius asked Mboweni to bring the meeting to order. The governor refused and Pretorius said “shocking.” This prompted a further response from the governor who said that Pretorius should not address him in the manner used by whites when talking to blacks during the apartheid era.

“I shall not permit you to talk to me like whites used to talk to blacks,” Mboweni said.

Pretorius, through his lawyer, Johan van Huyssteens requested a public apology for the accusation that he spoke to the governor in a racist manner. “We once again invite you to withdraw your statement and apologise to our client unconditionally. This must be done by way of a letter and a statement in the public media. Pretorius will accept an apology unconditionally,” the letter stated.

The letter further stated that should Mboweni, not act on this request by the end of October 3, “our client will institute a claim against you and the SARB for an amount of R1million.”

Mboweni could possibly face further damage claims from Pretorius, the letter stated.

Mboweni’s spokeswoman Samantha Henkeman confirmed that they received the letter from Pretorius’s lawyers on Friday. “We did receive the letter on Friday. We are still studying it and would respond in due course,” she said. [/quote]

But I suppose this is the sort of thing that you get when you gradually emasculate males and make it common practice to sue over stupid little words spoken to each other.
In a normal world, if someone “insults” you, either you’d say nothing and laugh in his face, or hit back with an even better one liner.
These days you can sue for any old thing, because we just can’t have a man’s fragile ego bruised, now can we.

I remember an incident back in college where one individual said ,“Fuck you!” to a friend of mine. He quickly responded, “Not on your life bitch. You don’t have the money and I don’t have the time!”
Sure is better than wasting tax payers money…

Edit: Forgot to add the link. newstoday.co.za/cgi-bin/news … 1222580522

[Captain_Stag]

@Mother Theresa

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]How is this defamation? Maybe a lawyer can correct me on this, but isn’t defamation about making false claims about someone that ‘defame’ his character. For example had the dude called his colleague a ‘friendly person’ when, in fact the man in question did not suck cocks, but merely gave handjobs, he could then sue for defamation. But making suggestions about where someone can stow there vacuum cleaner can’t be defamation can it?

Correct. In the US (and probably most other countries), actionable defamation is when one intentionally makes a false statement concerning material (ie., important) facts about a person. To recover compensation the person must prove that the defamatory statement caused actual damages. Usually emotional distress isn’t enough; it has to cause actual monetary damages. Saying “up yours” is not even close (it’s not a statement of facts). Saying “you’re a fucking moron” might come closer to defamation if it were false, which is debatable in this case. But even a statement such as that should fail, because it’s somewhat subjective and is more a statement of opinion than a statement of facts. Statements of opinion are totally permissible, so one can say “I believe you’re a cock-sucking, ignorant cunt” with impunity in the US. But of course this is not the US, it’s Taiwan and they’ve got some ridiculous laws in this country (ie., adultery being a criminal offense) and the judges and lawyers tend not to be the sharpest bunch, so there you have it. A simple common insult can be mischaracterized as defamation here and the law is dumb enough to prosecute. But what did you expect?[/quote]

Exactly…so if “defamation” is their avenue for prosecuting this offense, then wouldn’t the Taiwanese word for foreigner “Ah-doh-ah” (don’t quite know how to spell that), which means “big nose” be defamation? especially seeing as I don’t have a big nose myself.

[Elegua]

@Tigerman

[quote=“Elegua”]Typical WSR.

Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR.
[/quote]

Possibly they are not typical WSR. But then you are a Republican

[maoman]

@Tigerman

[quote=“Elegua”]his mother poisoned the stray cats around the apartment and would arrive unannounced at our house, (once even walked in), to tell me wife how horrible the, Taiwanese were. I caught her stealing our herbs once. Typical WSR.

Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR. [/quote]
Nor mine. :eh:

[Mucha_Man]

@Maoman

[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Elegua”]his mother poisoned the stray cats around the apartment and would arrive unannounced at our house, (once even walked in), to tell me wife how horrible the, Taiwanese were. I caught her stealing our herbs once. Typical WSR.

Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR. [/quote]
Nor mine. :eh:[/quote]

Nor mine.

[Elegua]

Fair enough. That’s what I get for generalizations.

[urodacus]

even your avatar is a general. sheesh.

[Feiren]

Some of these laws might not be as silly as they seem. If people regularly kill or injure each other because of insults or adultery, it may be a good idea to deter that kind of behavior by criminalizing it.

[quote]But I suppose this is the sort of thing that you get when you gradually emasculate males and make it common practice to sue over stupid little words spoken to each other.
In a normal world, if someone “insults” you, either you’d say nothing and laugh in his face, or hit back with an even better one liner.[/quote]

The problem is not emasculated males. Quite the contrary. Your ‘normal’ world is one in which people have already internalized rules of behavior against violence over insults so that these laws are unnecessary. However, these laws are applied in inconsistent and wasteful ways. Taiwanese people seem to always get off the hook for cussing each other out in salty Taiwanese, whereas foreigners and even Taiwanese get fined for swearing in English. There was an incredible case a few years back in Taoyuan where one Taiwanese woman said ‘Shit!’ (in English) in front of another Taiwanese woman, and the judge fined the first one. Neither were native or even primary speakers of English!

[anon38216271]

just more proof of how that whole “face” thing leads to a life of immaturity for some men in Taiwan. Gezz get a grip will, ya.

[Anubis]

@Mother Theresa

[quote=“Elegua”]It’s funny. Tradition has always had these academic types on a pedestal so they get inflated such inflated egos.

I disagree. There are arrogant pricks in all professions. Having grown up with a prof for a dad and abundant family friends in academia, I believe profs are as likely to be mild-mannered and decent – or more – as they are to be boastful and arrogant. I’ve found ranchers, loggers, chip truck drivers, green-chain pullers, cops, judges, soldiers, criminal defense lawyers, financial advisors, CEOs and people in all sorts of other professions, or even those without a profession, to be just as likely to be arrogant pricks.

BUT, if he’s the kind of guy who puts “Dr” before his name or “PhD” after it in regular, everyday usage, that’s a sign he’s got an ego problem.[/quote]

Certainly the biggest bunch of arrogant, incompetent, self-centred cunts is to be found in the Science Park. So important, so clever; yet they can’t even drive. :roflmao:

[Lo_Bo_To]

A Taoyuan woman was sentenced to 15 days under detention for calling a neighbor “son of a bitch”

That is the most insane thing I have ever heard.

So Mr. Betel-Nut-Joe can run a red light, nearly hit me, I yell something at him, he chases me down, pulls out a weapon and tries to kill me and he gets off with nothing but if I call someone a son of a bitch I am detained for 15 days :loco:

This is Taiwan at it’s most rediculous

[mike_rophonechecker]

Billings shouted the dirty words in a row over trifles with Chow on August 14 last year.

The Maderia in this trifle is a Moscatel.
Moscatel! It is a Mulvasia!
Moscatel.
Mulvasia!
Moscatel.
Oh up yours!
You are totally F’d in the A now buckaroo!

End result: I really don’t care. They’re all fools and get what they deserve.

Mother Theresa, quick question. You had sympathy for the drug smuggler, buy not for the victim of Taiwanese idiocy (or face). How come?

[Tigerman]

@Elegua

Typical WSR.

[quote=“Tigerman”]Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR.
[/quote]

@Elegua

Possibly they are not typical WSR. [color=#FF0000]But then you are a Republican [/color]:lol:

Just curious… what does my political leaning have to do with anything in the context of this thread?

[sandman]

@Tigerman

[quote=“Elegua”]Typical WSR.

[quote=“Tigerman”]Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR.
[/quote]

@Elegua

Possibly they are not typical WSR. [color=#FF0000]But then you are a Republican [/color]:lol:

Just curious… what does my political leaning have to do with anything in the context of this thread?[/quote]
Because if you were a Democrat, you’d have married a Birkenstock-wearing, tree-hugging liberal with hairy armpits and poor personal hygiene?

[Elegua]

@Tigerman

[quote=“Elegua”]Typical WSR.

[quote=“Tigerman”]Doesn’t sound anything at all like my in-laws, who are WSR.
[/quote]

@Elegua

Possibly they are not typical WSR. [color=#FF0000]But then you are a Republican [/color]:lol:

Just curious… what does my political leaning have to do with anything in the context of this thread?[/quote]

Not much…just an association I have. Generally WSR have been historically been a bit to the conservative right in the political spectrum of Taiwan…

[Tigerman]

@Elegua

Not much…just an association I have. Generally WSR have been historically been a bit to the conservative right in the political spectrum of Taiwan…

The political poles here in Taiwan are different from the poles in the US.

[Elegua]

@Tigerman

[quote=“Elegua”]Not much…just an association I have. Generally WSR have been historically been a bit to the conservative right in the political spectrum of Taiwan…

The political poles here in Taiwan are different from the poles in the US.[/quote]

Yes & no. But other than some differences on dirigism, not much, (and probably less than what the US right would think).

[Toasty]

@Elegua

[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Elegua”]Not much…just an association I have. Generally WSR have been historically been a bit to the conservative right in the political spectrum of Taiwan…

The political poles here in Taiwan are different from the poles in the US.[/quote]

Yes & no. But other than some differences on dirigism, not much, (and probably less than what the US right would think).[/quote]

How so? Other than the straights issue, they don’t really govern in any markedly different ways. They are both left of center.

[the_chief]

@Toasty

…the straights issue, they don’t really govern in any markedly different ways. They are both left of center.

Is this something about extended rights for homosexuals??

And as for calling someone a Republican…see, now that’s defamation…

[Mother_Theresa]

@mike_rophonechecker

[quote]End result: I really don’t care. They’re all fools and get what they deserve.

Mother Theresa, quick question. You had sympathy for the drug smuggler, buy not for the victim of Taiwanese idiocy (or face). How come?[/quote]

I wouldn’t quite put it as you did.

In this case a foreigner, who holds a PhD and teaches in a university, apparently acted like an idiot, cussing out his boss over a trivial matter. The boss apparently acted like an idiot too. So did the police and prosecutor. The relevant Taiwan law is completely absurd. And the media reported that he was charged with “defamation”, which is clearly wrong because even if it’s a crime to insult someone in Taiwan, the charge is definitely not “defamation” (ie., making false statements about someone). Hence my comment that they’re all fools and get what they deserve. And hence my reference to the great line from The Man Who Would be King, where Michael Caine is astounded by a barbaric tribe of people and implores Sean Connery to leave them behind and let them go back to pissing in the river upstream from each other and playing stick ball with a goat’s head. In other words, they’re all so damned pathetic it’s not even worth bothering with them.

In the other case, someone wanted to visit a foreigner he knows, who he feels is basically a good guy who screwed up and is now likely incarcerated for decades. The first person to respond to that post said basically, “tough shit, let him rot in hell, I hope he dies, fucking scum.” I disagreed with that sentiment. I agreed completely that if he attempted to smuggle 5 kg of dope into Taiwan he was a complete idiot. And I acknowledge that the authorities have a right to pass barbaric drug laws if they wish and people should know the potentially very serious consequences of attempted smuggling. But, I don’t see that as any reason to not have empathy for a guy sentenced to decades in prison.

The first case seems so petty, trivial and absurd. The second case seems immense and tragic. But, if the would-be prof is sentenced to 15 years in prison and someone responds, “tough shit, he knew you can’t cuss someone out in Taiwan, he got what he deserved, I hope he dies,” then he will get my empathy as well. In the meantime, that defamation case just seems like a big joke (actually, not even a big joke, just a small and terribly stupid joke).