Pic = 1000 words: Hi-res photos from Fukushima

The four damaged reactors, up close and personal. It’s looking pretty grim there now, with the news yesterday and today about spreading radiation.

cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp … photos.htm

[quote=“Vorkosigan”]The four damaged reactors, up close and personal. It’s looking pretty grim there now, with the news yesterday and today about spreading radiation.
cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp … photos.htm[/quote]

Hi, someone else posted that info here recently:
viewtopic.php?t=97140&start=471

A note, related to pictures and videos of the power plant (for the record/archives):
Most of use can likely not make much sense of those images, but here is the URL for a long thread (over 1400 posts as of today) on the “physicsforums” site where one can find these and other photos (or links to them) as well as long stretches of discussion where people try to analyse them. The quality of the discusssion in that thread is generally high, with knowledgable people around who keep the talk on topic and the noise level low.
physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=480200

:slight_smile:

Apologies in advance, Vork. I actually admire a lot of what you write, but in this instance, yes I suppose for the bone arsed lazy a few pics are worth, well something, but for those with enquiring minds, 1,000 words are invariably far better.

It is perhaps worthy to have a voyeuristic peek at the awful damage done at the Fukushima plant, perhaps a few shocking graphs depicting windflow and “radiation.,” or you could follow an online forum like Forumosa where the resident “expert” - who has nailed his anti-growth, anti-nuke, pro-Luddite tendencies firmly to the wall - is feeding updates from another online fora (well, we know the standard of discussion here, why should we assume it’s any better there? A fair question?).

Or, better still, you could read what the man charged with sorting out a previous mess and declaring Chernobyl far worse than the Soviets claimed is saying about Fukushima. Possibly a few more than 1,000 words, but certainly worth the time.

Why Fukushima Isn’t Like Chernobyl[quote]Is the kind of massive radiation release that occurred with Chernobyl possible at the Fukushima plant?
No, it can’t have that kind of massive release. It simply can’t do that. The question is to what extent the zirconium alloy, which clads the fuel pellets, is damaged in the core, and how much of the fuel has failed. And I don’t necessarily mean melted, I mean failed. There’s been an ambiguous use of the word ‘melting’ applied to the core. But when people talk about meltdown, they should be very specific about what they mean by the word.

At Fukushima, there are four primary barriers to releases: the fuel zircalloy cladding, a pressure vessel, an inner containment structure, and a confinement building. To a large extent, the core material seems to be contained. Apart from, of course—and this is where the speculation runs wild—there’s the question of the source of the radiation they’re detecting in certain areas where water has accumulated. Indications today are that it isn’t the cores. They’ve been dumping or spraying tremendous amounts of water onto and into the damaged buildings, so surely someone is considering this water as a possible source.

But until they go in and see, we have little more than speculation to go on, because they don’t know to what extent—if any—the cores are damaged, and they don’t know to what extent the pressure vessels are damaged, although that’s unlikely. They also don’t know to what extent the pipes are damaged, and they don’t know to what extent the lower portion of the containment building is damaged. So, on the one hand, I can’t speculate on what is going on inside. But even so, and given what nuclear engineers know in terms of the plant layout, it’s just not true that it’s a Chernobyl situation.[/quote]
More reassurance at the link.

Or maybe you’d be pleased to hear that what Greenpeace is saying is being confirmed, albeit with a different conclusion. Lawrence Solomon: You can trust Japan’s radiation data, Greenpeace says.

Meanwhile, these are certainly pics I think are worth far more than 1,000 words. Plenty of them here:
http://www.japanearthquakepictures.com/

For example:

Last night I participated in a fund raiser for the victims of Japan’s disaster at the local boozer with a rather large number of the local Japanese members of the community. Where I live in HK is small in terms of population, and by HK standards, relatively poor, but the gusto and sums raised were deeply touching. A very memorable occasion.

HG

Very sorry. I was really referring to reading descriptions in the newspaper and did not intend to substitute for a discussion of the meltdown itself.

Surely you are curious enough to have looked there and found out that that was a disingenious question (and insinuation). :roflmao:

Anyway, i have a solid reason for an “anti-growth” stance: i believe in the laws of physics and not in what you yourself quoted as the “dismal science” of economics. :smiley:

So let us agree to disagree…

Reference links for the curious: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=97140&start=501

I don’t know the identities or credentials of any of the members of the bulletin board yuli has linked to on a number of occasions (Physics Forums, physicsforums.com), but the nature of its discussions and the functions of its forums indicate that it is a substantially different kind of bulletin board from ours (not that that means there’s anything wrong with our kind of bulletin board). And there’s this, for whatever it’s worth:

scientificamerican.com/partners/

Very sorry. I was really referring to reading descriptions in the newspaper and did not intend to substitute for a discussion of the meltdown itself.[/quote]
And I sincerely apologise if I suggested otherwise, good sir!
Charlie Jack and yuli-san. Obviously there are decent posts there, and discussion, but it’s pretty much all speculation, as posters on the forum are as obviously clueless as anyone else outside the plant, and left commenting on the what ifs and what could that mean. Interesting, sure, but speculation nonetheless. And if you read the more discerning posts there, you’ll see the constant reference to this being effectively an awful situation which is, mercifully for the rest of us, limited to the site and immediate surroundings, which is what I’ve been saying all along, and why I’m more concerned about the tsunami and quake victims, which number many times more the ‘potential’ victims of the issues at the Fukushima plant. It strikes as somewhat perverse, to be honest.

HG

Very sorry. I was really referring to reading descriptions in the newspaper and did not intend to substitute for a discussion of the meltdown itself.[/quote]
And I sincerely apologise if I suggested otherwise, good sir!
Charlie Jack and yuli-san. Obviously there are decent posts there, and discussion, but it’s pretty much all speculation, as posters on the forum are as obviously clueless as anyone else outside the plant, and left commenting on the what ifs and what could that mean. Interesting, sure, but speculation nonetheless. And if you read the more discerning posts there, you’ll see the constant reference to this being effectively an awful situation which is, mercifully for the rest of us, limited to the site and immediate surroundings, which is what I’ve been saying all along, and why I’m more concerned about the tsunami and quake victims, which number many times more the ‘potential’ victims of the issues at the Fukushima plant. It strikes as somewhat perverse, to be honest.

HG[/quote]

I shouldn’t talk about myself as much as I do, but in some situations I see little choice but to do so, and this is one of them. We may be talking about culture here, really. I come from an American state (Louisiana) that is historically known for its corrupt and sometimes Byzantine political doings. Unavoidably, of course, these doings often involve the larger business interests. To some people where I live, politics is almost like a sporting event. Others, more reform-minded, are unhappy with the politics of that place. (I guess I’m somewhere in the middle, even though, in terms of observing political goings-on I’m the rankest of amateurs compared to some of my fellow citizens of that state). One thing both philosophies have in common is an interest in “what the rascals are up to.”

That’s only one part, but a big part of what motivates me about this particular series of events. I don’t believe the sky is falling; I don’t believe the pro-nuke people are the Minions of the Prince of Darkness; nor have extraterrestrials ever dropped by on their way to Proxima Centauri to inform me that nuclear power is bad for the planet. I’m not even exceptionally “green” (although I think most of us have been affected over the years by green ideas).

I also understand the goshawful thing that’s happened to Japan separate and apart from the nuke thing. My main responses to that, while viewing the videos and pics, were brief and the sorts of utterances I usually type with a generous dose of asterisks. It was jaw-dropping. And in fact, when I first got wind of the nuke thing, I was like, “On top of all of this?”

Nonetheless, I am what I am, I couldn’t help trying to get a peek at “what the rascals are up to.”

I realize that there’s another, much more immediate, much worse, disaster in Japan; I’ve registered that. But I mean, somewhere on this board there may be someone discussing shoes or tennis or sex or Mexican food or getting short-changed a few thousand NT Dollars by their boss, while the non-nuke part of this disaster is going on. And so far at least, I don’t remember seeing anyone saying, “How can you think about fajitas at a time like this?”

I guess I should just tell you like I told Icon after she chewed us all out :laughing: over yonder in the “You Call This Living?” forum, or whatever the name of it is: I just think the nuke plant thing is interesting. Really I do. Not the most interesting thing in the world. It’s just what I call “almost quasi-non-boring.” Sorry if I offended anyone by my interest in it. Henceforth, if I get any more urges to see “what the rascals are up to,” I’ll try to keep them to myself.

Charlie Jack, over and out.

Obviously! Many of them are only scientists or engineers, or perhaps technicians in the field of nuclear medicine, in any case uneducated people out there in some fantasy world. :blush:

Let me tell you that we in Japan appreciate that so many other people outside of our country are concerend about the situation and that assistance has been so generous. Let me mention something that i normally wouldn’t talk about on this BBS, but perhaps it may help take away if only a small part of your concern: even though we live more than 2000km away from the scene of the disaster we (myself and my family) are even able to help people who have been affected by the earthquake. We are foregoing some rent income because we are supporting people who had to leave an affected area and have decided to move as far south as they can (to our island), since one of their daughters has been living in our house for over a year now.

As has been mentioned before more than once, dead people are not the only concern when it comes to disasters and accidents - there is a host of other problems that people are concerned abou (never mind that not more people having been killed does not prove that they could not have been killed or won’t be killed). I really would prefer to talk about ideas and not about people, but i get the impression you are involved in some game of pretending to be dense. :s

And as regards posting information about the nuclear accident to this BBS: it all started with someone in Taiwan asking a question because he was concerned, and it turned out he is not the only concerned person in Taiwan. And today i was in Taipei and got a quick glimpse of a newspaper that someone carried in the subway (蘋果日報) and i noticed on the front page a map showing wind blowing from Japan, a person wearing a dust mask, and the remark 三天後 - so i checked with Google now that i’m back at my place in Hualien and found this site where you can see for yourself that apparently this is a matter of concern for some people in Taiwan tw.nextmedia.com/

So, please excuse me for posting news updates and background information about the nuclear power plant - if you don’t need any of that information where you are, may i suggest the obvious: you could just skip it. :slight_smile:

Exactly - life in the rest of the world continues with all its trivialities and drama… hold it: how dare you! :astonished:

Japanese exhibitors at the Anuga food and drink trade fair in Cologne have had a tough year exporting to Europe. Memories of the Fukushima nuclear problems are strong in Europe, but a grasp of Japanese geography is not.