Pitcairn Island -- wow, what a story

Discussion Open Forum
21

Mother Theresa wrote:
“in traditional South Pacific island cultures children regularly engaged in sex at a young age and it wasn’t seen as disgusting, immoral or criminal as it is in today’s society”

Dear M.theresa, this has nothing to do with abstract mumbo-jumbo philosophies. Many women came forward with the accusations and are too disgusted to visit the island of their birth (pitcairn), even to testify, so that they must now give their testimony via video link - they are now in Britain or New Zealand.

Even in societies where underage sex is common, rape is usually excluded from this rule. Please be careful about spreading misinformation about the victims whose lives have been destroyed. One of the victims is now a 51 year old and has said:

“Men could do what they want with them. They seem to be a rule unto themselves. That’s the way it is on Pitcairn. You get abused, you get raped. They just do what they want with you and then leave you in the gutter. It’s a normal way of life on Pitcairn.”
…
The woman, now married and living overseas, said: “Everyone thinks Pitcairn is a paradise. But it’s sheer hell.”

You also mentioned that if the men go to jail, it will mean disaster for the island as there will be no one to do the necessary chores. That is not exactly correct. Half the men on the island are on trial. The other half can be taught, as well as the women to work the boats, etc. This is not impossible, as I have seen women in Asia at the helm of boats and running the show.

Please read the following articles. They show the hellish existance of a dwindling dysfunctional family on the remote island. You will have a clearer portrait of the tyranny the women had to suffer and the family backstabbing in trying to protect the rapists.

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=568002

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=567680

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=568357

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=567160

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=566766

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p … 709328.stm

Mother Teresa, I am sure this was not your intent, but hopefully no more inaccurate statements that seem to justify/erotisize rape. The younger a girl has sex, the higher the incidence of cervical and ovarian cancer, venereal diseases, emotional problems etc. resulting from early sexual activity, especially the devastating consequences of childhood rape. The women now testifying would surely disagree with your views.

22

I’m not talking abstract mumbo-jombo. I’m simply stating the facts: that in many traditional south-sea island communities the natives had sex at a very young age, apparently without feelings of shame, guilt, immorality or having been abused. I never said that such facts excuse the defendants (don’t forget, they haven’t been convicted yet), but it seems somewhat relevant. I recognize that Pitcairn isn’t a pre-colonial polynesian island, but neither is it a normal, developed, western nation. It’s a very odd and unique place and there seems to be some merit in the argument that maybe different standards should apply there, although I’m not sure what they should be.

If you were trapped on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere with just 47 people, wouldn’t you want to get the hell off the island before making such accusations? I would. The island is too small. But that doesn’t mean their accusations are necessarily true.

I recognize that sex with an underage child who seems to understand what she is doing and consent to the act is different from actual forcible rape and I don’t know what the exact accusations are in this case. But YOU too should be careful about spreading misinformation. Unless you lived on Pitcairn and witnessed the alleged sex acts, then you don’t know the truth any better than I do.

Forcible rape is a very bad thing but we don’t actually know if anyone was forcibly raped in this case. I hadn’t even heard that allegation till now, but even if some women have claimed that, it’s my understanding that so far it’s only an allegation, which may be disputed by others.

I believe there is little or no disagreement on Pitcairn, however, that sex with girls as young as 12 occurred, but that is where I feel the line is not as clear as you claim. Forcible rape is definitely wrong, but different societies have different ideas about what is a reasonable age of consent for sex and maybe on Pitcairn 12 is reasonable. I’m not saying that it is – just that it’s a good legal argument given Pitcairn’s unique status. . . and perhaps there may be some validity to it.

OK, I’ll gladly read them. I wasn’t trying to spread misinformation and as I said, I’m not sure you know the truth regarding Pitcairn any better than I do. But I’ll gladly educate myself further.

Please understand, I do realize that rape is a terrible crime and I never said that sex with 12 year-olds is acceptable. My fascination with Pitcairn arose long before these rape allegations. I was fascinated with teh place becasue Mutiny on the Bounty is such a great story, and it is true, and the mutineers landed on pitcairn with a handful of native women and the colony actually survived on the desolate island for over 200 years. That’s what interested me in the story. The rape allegations are very sad, although from a legal perspective they raise some interesting questions (which I realize would not be of much comfort to the women if they really were or felt they were abused).

23

I think some of the confusion here is that in western law, any underage sex is classified as rape, regardless of whether the participants feel there was any coercion or force. This is under the theory than anyone under a certain age is incapable of making decisions or saying no. More properly this is usually called statutory rape, but many people just simply call it rape. The articles I’ve read about Pitcairn do not at all make it clear if this was consensual underage sex or violent forced rape. There’s a variety of opinions about what age someone can consent to sex (even in developed countries the age of consent varies a lot, from 14 to 18), but few people find actual rape acceptable. A clearer picture of what exactly happened on Pitcairn would help distinguish this.

24

Those of you looking for an interesting read on the mutiny story may want to take a look at this book by Caroline Alexander. I haven’t read the book yet myself, but The New Yorker printed some excerpts a while back and the stuff was fascinating. Seeing this thread reminded me of the book and gives me a good reason to pop into Page One.

amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ … 94-3531158

25

Actually, I just read a few articles on the rape trial during lunch (previously I had read almost nothing about it, mostly just marveling that those people still lived on that island and reading up on life on Pitcairn) and it appears that there are lots of allegations of forcible rape, not just statutory rape. Or at least that’s how the accusers recall the facts now, some 30 or 40 years after many of the alleged rapes.

None of us knows if their allegations are true or not, but if there really was regular forcible rape then there is obviously no excuse, regardless of the “different cultures” argument. If the allegations really are true, what a terrible and fucked up place for a girl to grow up, being hounded by the rapist elder men in the society, who hold tremendous power because they bear the names of the original settlers, having no escape on the tiny island and no authorities to turn to for help. :help: If it’s true, what a terrible place.

26

Folks, for your information:

news.independent.co.uk/world/aus … ory=568948

"The united front presented by the seven defendants in the Pitcairn child sex abuse trial has finally started to crumble, with Dennis Christian, a descendant of the Bounty mutineers, offering the first guilty pleas to the court yesterday.

In a dramatic development, Christian, 49, pleaded guilty to one charge of indecent assault and two of sexual assault against young girls. "

27

[quote=“learned_monkey”]Mother Theresa wrote:
“in traditional South Pacific island cultures children regularly engaged in sex at a young age and it wasn’t seen as disgusting, immoral or criminal as it is in today’s society”

Dear M.theresa, this has nothing to do with abstract mumbo-jumbo philosophies. Many women came forward with the accusations and are too disgusted to visit the island of their birth (pitcairn), even to testify, so that they must now give their testimony via video link - they are now in Britain or New Zealand.

Even in societies where underage sex is common, rape is usually excluded from this rule. Please be careful about spreading misinformation about the victims whose lives have been destroyed. One of the victims is now a 51 year old and has said:

“Men could do what they want with them. They seem to be a rule unto themselves. That’s the way it is on Pitcairn. You get abused, you get raped. They just do what they want with you and then leave you in the gutter. It’s a normal way of life on Pitcairn.”
…
The woman, now married and living overseas, said: “Everyone thinks Pitcairn is a paradise. But it’s sheer hell.”
[/quote]
This whole thing smacks of a group of bitter women lashing out at something that might or might not have happened 30 years ago. I’m sorry but there should be a statue of limitations of this kind of stuff. I doubt very many people can remember the details of something that happened 30 years ago. {I had one friend who was convinced that her father molested her while she was a baby in a crib but couldn’t remember anything about it…‘it’s just a feeling a have’ she would say. Over the course of a few years, she has now accepted this molestation as fact and would swear it happened in a court of law even though she really doesn’t know}
And if these women were so devastated, I would have thought they would have said something before now.
Most Americans realize, or should realize, many innocent people accept a plea bargain agreement because even though they are innocent there isn’t any way to guarantee they will win.