Come on, the cop didn’t walk away with his ID – he’s in the middle of directing traffic at a busy part of town right at shop-closing time rush hour when some stupid dweeb tries to jaywalk right under his nose. “Fuck that for game of soldiers,” he thinks to himself, “that cheeky knob-end’s getting a ticket, foreigner or not. Now, how the fuck do I figure out this ARC crap? Wait, lights are changing, traffic’s backing up, fuck it, I’ll take care of it in a minute. What the FUCK is this stupid twat whining about? Arsehole can’t even speak the lingo – hell, let him stew for a minute…” and so on.
Jesus, even in ever-so-civilized-and-refined-Britain if you tried that shit with a cop there’s a good chance you’d be lying on your face in the street with his knee on your neck in short order.
Live and learn. Don’t jaywalk. Especially not right in front of a cop. And DON’T try snatching stuff out of a cop’s hand – christ, do you REALLY need that part spelled out for you? :loco:
Cops here are sued to getting shit on by the locals and getting all sorts of shit excuses - just watch TTV version of COPS.
My experience has always been that if you treat them with respect, - not obsequiously - they don’t give you too much of a problem. If fact, they’ll even look for a way to let you off.
Once at a DUI checkpoint the cops were having trouble getting the blood alcohol analyzer working. Call me a dick, but since I could read the error message and I knew I wasn’t over the limit, I fixed it for them and they let me off for having an expired drivers liscense.
Of course, what I did upset the drunks lined-up behind me quite a bit.
9:30 p.m. the Taipei 101 area is almost dead in terms of traffic, his partner was doing a pretty good job of directing traffic, at least it was last nite.
I disagree that I was jaywalking since the police officer changed the flow of traffic, i.e. the light was green in the E/W direction, but the cop was stopping all the E/W traffic so I could cross N. If the cars are listening to the cop and stopping even though its a green light, should I not cross even though its red since the cops have stopped the opposing traffic?
If I had broken this law/rule he should have said so rather than saying no problem he just wants to know who I am.
I know its defenitely not a good idea to take things out of the cops hands, and I tried talking with him but he couldn’t understand at all what I was saying. I also couldn’t understand what he was saying, I did not know if he would give me back my ARC or keep it, but from his previous indications it seemed the latter.
I know that taking something out of the hands of a cop is risking a fight or a trip to da slammer, but being without an ARC I would probably risk being in jail too, so I thought the consequences of either case are similar, at least if I go to jail I have my ARC with me and can tell the judge I snatched the ARC from him because I was under the impression I should not part with it. Granted if the cop beats me with his cane, or I get deported for allegedly assaulting an officer none of this would really matter 
Please keep in mind he never told me I was jaywalking or committed any crimes. It wasn’t until my friend showed up and spoke to the Officer that he told me why I was stopped and changed his story from just wanting to know who I am (according to his phone conversation with my friend) to actually saying I broke a law. Prior to this I was in the dark about what this was about. I honestly feel if I could’ve actually communicated with the officer this situation would never have happened. Perhaps Police should setup a translation number they can call when they need to talk to non-chinese speakers? In Canada this has worked out well to prevent people’s Charter Rights from being violated, but seeing as how no such Charter Rights exist here thats a moot point :raspberry:
I have never had trouble with cops before, but I don’t go around giving them the finger or think I can violate laws because I am a foreigner.
From what I have gathered from my friend, these pedestrian classes are in Chinese and afterwards I will have to take a simple test. Hopefully a friend can translate the class and test for me, but than its almost like they are taking it for me. Currently, the classes are Tues/Thurs 2p.m. and Sat. morning 9 a.m.
I assume its like a one-time class, if anyone would like to kill time, can understand Chinese and would like to take this test for me, pm me 
who knows, U may meet some really hotties in the class…
[quote=“webdoctors”]
who knows, U may meet some really hotties in the class…[/quote]
Hotties that jay walk? No thanks.
Psycho Xia Jay Walkers… 
Taipei Times publishes on page 2 every day in the “Useful Numbers” section: Police (English) 02-2556-6007. A web search shows that as the 24 Hour number for the Foreign Affairs Service Center. Might be something to program into your cellphone. If you forget, the regular police number is 110, and I’ve heard you can get an English speaker there by asking.
It’s too late now, but I agree that you should have been more patient with the officer. From your own description he was juggling several different tasks and probably couldn’t handle them all at once. It is also possible that he was waiting for someone who could help translate, or maybe he needed to call in your ID to check if it was valid. While I’ve yet to be stopped by the police here, from the couple of times I was stopped in the US it would often take 10-15 minutes for the officer to sort through things, even if I ended up not being cited for anything. The times I was not cited also may have had something to do with my being cooperative and patient.
Webdoctors you’re just not getting it are you. There is no justification for you doing what you did and you are clearly in the wrong no matter what you suggest were the mitigating factors.
At that time of night they are unlikely to have been directing commuter traffic. Maybe there was some event on at the WTC. Did you happen to notice a convoy of police vehicles and black limo’s - maybe you walked in front of the presidential vehicles or something.
Did you have a green walk signal? Did the police officer who was directing the traffic direct pedestrians to cross the street? Did you cross within a marked crossing? If your answer to each of this is ‘No’, then ‘Yes’ you were jaywalking. You can try arguing it with the bigwigs if you like, but you might end up looking like an ass.
Ah…maybe he did say exactly that, but you just didn’t understand. You seem to have mentioned in an earlier post that you don’t understand Chinese. Isn’t it just possible that he explained the infraction in detail but that you just didn’t understand a word that he said. If so, then do you really think that is his fault?
Imagine if you can a visitor from…let’s say Poland…in your home town back home and faced with the scenario that you were faced with. Unable to communicate with the officer, nor understand what the officer is trying to communicate to him. He would have some choices:
a. Argue with the officer in Polish and then assault the police officer and snatch his card back.
b. Call a friend to help him translate.
c. Wait and see what happens
Which action would you suggest he take? This has got to be the answer to the question you seem to be posing.
Oh come on! You are not suggesting that all of this went through your mind and was the reason for your decision to snatch back your ARC.
Have you had your ARC in your pocket from the moment you stepped off the plane, or did you receive in the months after you arrived and secured a job? Since you have had your ARC, how many times have the authorities demanded to see it or face deportation or imprisonment? What you are suggesting is just not reasonable, and I hope for your sake that you don’t try this one on if you decide to pursue the matter.
How do you know that/ By your own admission you state that you don’t understand Chinese but that he was talking to you. What do you think he was saying to you? Work it out!!
Did he change his story before or after you ranted like an idiot and snatched your ARC back from him. Initially, he was probably just going to call in the number and then let you go. You probably pissed him off so much by your over-performance that you gave him no choice but to give you a ticket.
Now you’re getting it - but from the opposite end of the stick. You blew the whole situation out of all proportion simply because you don’t understand the language. Now your frustration is understandable, but obviously the smart and common sense thing to do would have been to have acted remorseful and obliged with his requests. Your actions gave him no choice but to issue you a ticket. I assume that the traffic you mentioned earlier was enjoying the show, and it would have been bad form had the police officer let you away scott free.
Now you are starting to piss me off. Do some research before you post this kind of crap. Such numbers do exist here. For all you know he could have been asking the woman if he could borrow her cellphone to call the very number for you. Maybe he was waiting from an English speaking officer to attend and explain things to you. You never gave him a chance. You acted like a bloody idiot and made the rest of us foreigners look bad. And you got a ticket for your trouble - sucked in!
Why don’t you learn some manners, and learn something about the crap that you post before you post it here!
What do you call your performance the other day then? What you claim not to be is exactly what you are. You seem to be the only one who can’t see this.
The best question has been asked already - Would you have behaved with a police officer back home the way that you behaved with that police officer? I seriously doubt it, and therein lies the answer to your claims about not thinking that you as a foreigner are somehow above the law.
Too right! I would have used any excuse to get my truncheon out 
The police here are incompetent at the best of times. Add to this that he had another task to do (attending to the girl) and he stopped a foreigner who couldn’t speak chinese (which he is probably embarrassed about because he cant speak English) - he probably just needed a quiet few moments to pluck up the courage to speak to you, sort out his other tasks and decide what to do with you.
If you were in Britain and you snatched your ID away from me when I was a cop, I’d have fined you and bought you in, Canadian or not. If you did it somewhere like Mexico you’d be shot and if you did it in China or Thailand you’d be put in gaol for a few years. Through his incompetence, you got off lightly.
And so what if you lost your ID to the cop? You could have recorded his collar number, the number of the car or bike they were using and the time it happened. They would have mailed it back to you. If not, the worst that could happen is that you have to get a replacement ARC.
Not the end of the world.
Totally agree with Brian et al…the only thing I might suggest…some basic CHINESE language classes…you are, after all, living in Taiwan (if Chinese bothers you for some reason try Taiwanese… 
)
I might as well weigh in here. I agree with Dangermouse, Brian, et al. You were in the wrong and handled an annoying situation poorly. Oh well, live and learn. No biggie. 
Yes, well you’re not a woolly suit any longer, so I’d tuck that straight back into your trousers if I were you, before you get yourself arrested.
I have been asked for my ARC but didn’t have it on me. I tried my best to speak to them in Chinese up to the time they asked me for my ARC. When I remembered that my school on my ARC was not the same as the one I was currently working for, my Chinese disappeared and they left me alone. At the moment, I would walk with my ARC pasted on my forehead without fear. I’m an alien. I’m a legal allien. I am a waiguoren in Taiwan.
[quote=“Limey”]…I never carry my original ARC, just a photocopy. But I do carry my original Taiwan driving licence and health card. When I’ve had to produce, the police have always been happy with the photocopy ARC. I think it is too valuable to carry around on a daily basis.
I wonder about the legalities of this…anyone? I once asked the FAP they said that a photocopy is ok, but if I was stopped then I might have to return to the police station with the original at a later date.[/quote]
I was going to say that. I used to carry my ARC around until someone picked my pocket and I lost it. Then my Taiwanese friends told me they always carry a photocopy ID, not the original. If the police really need to see the original, they can take you to your home to inspect it.
There is one month each year, November, I believe, when the police get extra brownie points for catching illegal aliens. The cops who check the bus stations on Chengde Road Section 1 for soldiers away without leave also like stopping foreigners, so best avoid that particular road in November.
[quote=“brian”]Webdoctors you’re just not getting it are you. There is no justification for you doing what you did and you are clearly in the wrong no matter what you suggest were the mitigating factors.
At that time of night they are unlikely to have been directing commuter traffic. Maybe there was some event on at the WTC. Did you happen to notice a convoy of police vehicles and black limo’s - maybe you walked in front of the presidential vehicles or something.
This I highly doubt, no there was no presidential vehicles.
Did you have a green walk signal? Did the police officer who was directing the traffic direct pedestrians to cross the street? Did you cross within a marked crossing? If your answer to each of this is ‘No’, then ‘Yes’ you were jaywalking. You can try arguing it with the bigwigs if you like, but you might end up looking like an ass.
No I did not have a green walk signal, I was the only pedestrian at the time and I did cross at a marked crossing and the police officer did direct me to cross the street (although in hindsight this seems odd since another one stopped me).
Ah…maybe he did say exactly that, but you just didn’t understand. You seem to have mentioned in an earlier post that you don’t understand Chinese. Isn’t it just possible that he explained the infraction in detail but that you just didn’t understand a word that he said. If so, then do you really think that is his fault?
I believe I am somewhat to blame for not knowing Chinese, but he should have tried to get a translator via phone.
Imagine if you can a visitor from…let’s say Poland…in your home town back home and faced with the scenario that you were faced with. Unable to communicate with the officer, nor understand what the officer is trying to communicate to him. He would have some choices:
a. Argue with the officer in Polish and then assault the police officer and snatch his card back.
b. Call a friend to help him translate.
c. Wait and see what happens
Which action would you suggest he take? This has got to be the answer to the question you seem to be posing.
In Canada, the officer to the best of my beliefs would defenitely try to get a translator, in my home town (Toronto) we have a system setup where the cops can get translators over the phone in almost every known language, they frequently advertise this in the print and tv media.
Oh come on! You are not suggesting that all of this went through your mind and was the reason for your decision to snatch back your ARC.
Actually all of this did go through my mind as I did not have a minute to think about it but at least 10 minutes. Don’t forget this is after my friend confirms with the officer via telephone that there is not a problem, and at this point I had called my friend several times on my cell. In total I was probably with the officer for 30 mins, 15 mins by myself, 10 minutes within for my friend, 5 mins for my friend to talk to him.
Have you had your ARC in your pocket from the moment you stepped off the plane, or did you receive in the months after you arrived and secured a job? Since you have had your ARC, how many times have the authorities demanded to see it or face deportation or imprisonment? What you are suggesting is just not reasonable, and I hope for your sake that you don’t try this one on if you decide to pursue the matter.
No, but I know that I would have to get another one in the future, even if I did not get asked for it in the future for the next 1-2 years that I am here. Getting the ARC was enough of a hassle, I do not want to worry about getting another one. I like the suggestion another poster has mentioned regarding photocopies and one that I will use for the future.
How do you know that/ By your own admission you state that you don’t understand Chinese but that he was talking to you. What do you think he was saying to you? Work it out!!
Sorry let me rephrase that, Please keep in mind he never told me I was jaywalking or committed any crimes in English, and when he talked to my friend in Chinese he said the same thing to her over my cell.
Did he change his story before or after you ranted like an idiot and snatched your ARC back from him. Initially, he was probably just going to call in the number and then let you go. You probably pissed him off so much by your over-performance that you gave him no choice but to give you a ticket.
Honestly, we both can hypothesize about what he was going to do, I am not blind and I like to think I am reasonable. He did not call anything into “headquarters” or radio anyone or input my data into a computer, from what I could visually see, he merely wrote down my information. If he has done this, I do not see why he would need to also keep my card.
Now you’re getting it - but from the opposite end of the stick. You blew the whole situation out of all proportion simply because you don’t understand the language. Now your frustration is understandable, but obviously the smart and common sense thing to do would have been to have acted remorseful and obliged with his requests.
*It is difficult for one to oblige with another one’s requests when you cannot understand what they are saying. I did not refuse to cooperate with the officer on purpose, I tried to be as accomodating as possible under the circumstances of lacking a communication medium and guessing what it is he wanted. *
Your actions gave him no choice but to issue you a ticket. I assume that the traffic you mentioned earlier was enjoying the show, and it would have been bad form had the police officer let you away scott free.
Now you are starting to piss me off. Do some research before you post this kind of crap. Such numbers do exist here. For all you know he could have been asking the woman if he could borrow her cellphone to call the very number for you. Maybe he was waiting from an English speaking officer to attend and explain things to you. You never gave him a chance. You acted like a bloody idiot and made the rest of us foreigners look bad. And you got a ticket for your trouble - sucked in!
*Actually no, the woman was arguing with him about some sort of ticket she had in her hand, my friend told me this as she was still there when my friend arrived screaming at him. I like to think I gave him a chance, perhaps I am wrong, should there be a future encounter and I don’t have a photocopy I may wait 30-60 mins instead of 10. I did have the 110 number but did not call it as I believe thats only for emergencies (criminal emergencies like 911), I did not know about the other number someone else has posted, I have since added it to my phonebook. If in the future, you get stopped by a cop, just tell them you don’t know webdoctors, so they don’t think U R also a jerk 
*
Why don’t you learn some manners, and learn something about the crap that you post before you post it here!
*I am learning Chinese slowly, hopefully that will help people from thinking I am rude as than I can communicate more effectively rather than physically, if U don’t like what I post, don’t read it *
What do you call your performance the other day then? What you claim not to be is exactly what you are. You seem to be the only one who can’t see this.
Except for the rude action of taking my ID from his notepad, I did not behave rudely at all. I spoke clearly and slowly, I did not scream at him, or give him any rude gestures. Even after taking my ID away, I later did give it back to him when he needed further information from me and my friend said he requested it, since now he knew I wanted it back.
The best question has been asked already - Would you have behaved with a police officer back home the way that you behaved with that police officer? I seriously doubt it, and therein lies the answer to your claims about not thinking that you as a foreigner are somehow above the law.[/quote]
Honestly I resent that, I would have acted exactly the same way back home. Although I like to think the police back home behave differently (this maybe idealistic, they may have just beat me instead and tossed me in jail) but yes I would give them the opportunity to return my ID and if they would not and the document in question was of important I would definitely try to get it back.
Edit: I have added responses separately to each of the statements above…but my responses are in *'s to separate them from Brian’s.
do you remember this, your original post?
here we go
so you interrupted the cop twice already, and then essentially tell him to get a move on, because you wanna get moving. the bit about needing the arc is superfluous, since you by now know that he doesn’t understand. your friend told you that there is no problem, so waiting patiently (even while steaming inside) would seem appropriate.
so you resort to taking something from him. even though he resists, you continue to fight over it. this is a cop, remember.
what do you call snatching something away from a cop? well-mannered and civil? the lie here is tough to find. you have actually admitted to persisting in doing something unwise. also, your friend is taiwanese (the translator)? the officer’s words might have been more akin to resisting, which (s)he translated as fighting. in any case, you have a second hand version of what the cop said.
your friend has told you that you were in the wrong. that in itself is not enuf, because i don’t buy the crap about most people respecting the police. many flout laws right in from of the police. but when stopped, they will try their best to get outta the situation without resorting to what you did. and if the police had your arc, and you were stopped without it, it would seem likely that you could say that. most likely, if he had kept your arc, you woulda been at the local police station the next morning to try to get it back. your argument seems strange at best. and you still offer no evidence that he wanted to confiscate your arc, only that he hadn’t given it back to you (yet).
i’m sure he knows that already. and from what you’ve described, i believe it highly unlikely that he was going to keep your arc, at least not without dragging you in with it.
good luck with this. may i suggest you go in all huffy with a video camera rolling? 
and here we come to the crux of the matter. you asked if you were in the wrong or not. the majority have said yes, and that’s not good enuf for you. why ask if you don’t care what people reply? and if this is the way you plan to act while here, get ready for a tough stay. you can feel lucky that cops don’t often stop foreigners because of the language difficulties.
from your latest post:
you would have given them the opportunity … what does that mean? you wouldn’t just go down to the station to complain? you would start grabbing things from a cop back home? i stand corrected, you might have trouble wherever you decide to live. :loco:
btw, i think a toronto cop woulda slapped you (literally).
This is a real good one. You need to carry your ARC at all times, so the police can check it - and then you refuse to let the cop check your ARC because you must carry it at all times 
Actually, you should follow the Taiwan traditions more. Next time, throw some food at the cop.
[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“hexuan”]You gave up your ID far too easily. Tell him you haven’t got any. See if he goes to all the trouble of ringing the FAP or actually arresting you. If it looks like he’s big enough a prick to go through all that then give up your ID and be all smiles.
It’s good to see our wonderful boys in blue tackling serious crime head on. I live in hope that one day the terrifying menace of jaywalking no longer plagues this island. Well done guys, that’s a hell of a way to make yourselves popular with the public.[/quote]
what bullshit that is hexuan. the cop asks for your id you give it to him, you don’t pull a “but I am a foreigner” whine. gee that’s a smart way to ensure cops always give shit to foreigners. good thinking.
I have no doubt that traffic accidents are caused in Taipei every day by jaywalkers.[/quote]
Obviously you feel quote strongly about this one ! 
You must have missed the bit where I wrote: “If it looks like he’s big enough a prick to go through all that then give up your ID and be all smiles.”
I have always found that a friendly smiling conversation in Chinese with the police and multiple apologies can make the original problem go away. I can’t for the life of me understand someone whose Chinese is poor or non-existing getting arsy with a cop here. The cop usually doesn’t want the hassle, I don’t want the hassle. In twelve years of riding a bike here I’ve had two fines, and both times the cop almost apologised for having to fine me, and one was a serious licence-plate-confiscation issue (even let me ride the bike home and all). Once you hand over your ID the chances of getting a fine rise steeply. Of course I hand it over in the end if the cop insists, and I take the fine, smile, and straight off to the post office to pay it.
BTW, I always give them my car licence. I need my ARC and bike licence, but if someone loses or retains my car licence it’s not such a biggie - I never drive a car here.
webdoctors,
I agree with the general verdict here that you were completely in the wrong, mishandled the situation very badly, and have no cause for complaint. You were not a victim of anything: you broke the law, and compounded your offence by your subsequent harassment of the unfortunate officer who was struggling to do his job properly in difficult circumstances. Indeed, you can thank your lucky stars that you got off so lightly in the end.
Several posters here have given you very wise counsel, and I hope you will take it to heart and try to act on it in future – for your own sake and everyone else’s.
ya I liked some ppl’s suggestion, and seeing almost everyone disagree with me, perhaps I am wrong…I will try an alternative strategy for future encounters wid da police
reading it again and your explanation i overreacted. you’re right, if you can get out of giving it up without making a stink why not.
[quote=“xtrain_01”]
good luck with this. may I suggest you go in all huffy with a video camera rolling? 
[/quote]
…and gulp a couple of beers down first for some dutch courage.