The language of the land is Chinese. Go to school.
The police have a right to hold your identification document for as long as it takes to process verification. Have patience and don’t spit the dummy.
Police directing traffic take precedence over traffice lights. Obey the law.
You broke a law and then reacted rudely. Go directly to jail, do not pass Taipei 101 whenever cops are present.
Next time wait for an Official to tell you when you can go. You do not decide when you may leave the presence of a police officer holding your identification documents. Learn to respect the officials of this country.
This is not an issue of human rights, except that yours are more important than others?
Why should ther cops learn to speak your language? Perhaps he should have taken you to a police station, handcuffed you the the rail on the wall and call the FAP. That would have ruined your day even further no doubt.
Next time just apologize, and wait to see what happens. Maybe you get a ticket, maybe not.
3 pages to tell the guy he was wrong, and he still doesn’t get it.
All this talk about “if I were at home”, grief, you are not at home, you are here in Taiwan. All this talk about what the police should and should not do just highlights your ignorance.
I can’t believe how hard you guys have come down on this person. Were none of you 23? (I really hope this guy is in his early 20s. :help: )
So he pissed off a cop and got a ticket. So have I. I’ve thrown bigger fits here than he has over smaller things–with the cops, at the DMV, at the tax office, at the American Express office, at Asian Sources, at that Joy cram school, at the airline counter, etc. Who gives a shit? My advice for him is the same–pay the fine and move on, but you people act like he’s dug up your dead grandmother and pissed on her or something.
[quote=“Flicka”]I can’t believe how hard you guys have come down on this person. Were none of you 23? (I really hope this guy is in his early 20s. :help: )
So he pissed off a cop and got a ticket. So have I. I’ve thrown bigger fits here than he has over smaller things–with the cops, at the DMV, at the tax office, at the American Express office, at Asian Sources, at that Joy cram school, at the airline counter, etc. Who gives a shit? My advice for him is the same–pay the fine and move on, but you people act like he’s dug up your dead grandmother and pissed on her or something.[/quote]
Yes, I was 23 once a long time ago and if anything I had more respect for the law then than I do now. As a matter of fact, I was stationed in Germany when I was in my late teens and early 20s…and you can bet your sweet-ass I never smart-mouthed (or grabbed anything from) one of those machine toting Polizei. I respectfully surrendered my military id and stood there until they gave it back. Period.
For the record, personally, I don’t throw fits…it shows a lack of self-discipline.
[quote=“Vannyel”]
Yes, I was 23 once a long time ago and if anything I had more respect for the law then than I do now. As a matter of fact, I was stationed in Germany when I was in my late teens and early 20s…and you can bet your sweet-ass I never smart-mouthed (or grabbed anything from) one of those machine toting Polizei. I respectfully surrendered my military id and stood there until they gave it back. Period.
For the record, personally, I don’t throw fits…it shows a lack of self-discipline.[/quote]
But wasn’t that your JOB to respectfully surrender your ID and stand there at attention? I think some dude crossing the street in Taipei is a different matter. Germany doesn’t quite employ the guanxi/lax law system that they do here.
What have you got against showing a lack of discipline?
But wasn’t that your JOB to respectfully surrender your ID and stand there at attention? I think some dude crossing the street in Taipei is a different matter. Germany doesn’t quite employ the guanxi/lax law system that they do here.
What have you got against showing a lack of discipline?[/quote]
The lack of discipline was to walk thru a red light and get busted. An episode of brain fade got jaywalker busted.
A case of rudeness got him into more trouble. A lack of respect for the law and trying to retrieve ARC could have gotten dumb dude thrown in jail.
When the police give you instructions to wait then you wait… refusing to obey a police officers instructions can get you arrested in any country.
[quote=“Flicka”][quote=“Vannyel”]
Yes, I was 23 once a long time ago and if anything I had more respect for the law then than I do now. As a matter of fact, I was stationed in Germany when I was in my late teens and early 20s…and you can bet your sweet-ass I never smart-mouthed (or grabbed anything from) one of those machine toting Polizei. I respectfully surrendered my military id and stood there until they gave it back. Period.
For the record, personally, I don’t throw fits…it shows a lack of self-discipline.[/quote]
But wasn’t that your JOB to respectfully surrender your ID and stand there at attention? I think some dude crossing the street in Taipei is a different matter. Germany doesn’t quite employ the guanxi/lax law system that they do here.
What have you got against showing a lack of discipline?[/quote]
Well I was in civilian clothes and it had nothing to do with my job…it had more to do with his and he was doing his.
[quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“Flicka”][quote=“Vannyel”]
Yes, I was 23 once .
What have you got against showing a lack of discipline?[/quote]
Well I was in civilian clothes and it had nothing to do with my job…it had more to do with his and he was doing his.[/quote][/quote]
Exactly. too bad the moron webdoctors cannot see that he is in the wrong.
The police have a job to do. When they tell you to hand over your ID you do so… if you have to wait you do so. Perhaps webdoctor could try the same thing with the highway patrol in his home country… I’m sure he’d soon get a free trip to a jail cell for failing to obey a police officer, resisting arrest, and perhaps assault…
[quote=“webdoctors”][quote=“Satellite TV”]
…The police have a job to do. When they tell you to hand over your ID you do so… if you have to wait you do so…[/quote]
I did wait for awhile…[/quote]
LOL… nah mate, you wait until your given permission to leave. You’re on detention, you’re in remand. The cops aren’t gonna hold your hand and take ya for windy walks, but by snatching your ARC back you created a situation of hostility, and cops don’t like hostility do they…?
You just showed a lack of respect to the law, not very smart in most countries. And dammit you don’t speak the local lingo… it’s not them thats has to speak English, it’s you that has to speak Chinese.
Damn when I hand over my ID Card the fun begins; check to see if it’s bogus, run a records check for outstanding warrants, check my licence and car registration more carefully too. It can take them half an hour if they are busy. It can take them an hour if I’m trying to look like I’m in a rush to get outta there. You get the drift?
So pull out a couple of fags, light one for your new found police friend and one for yaself. Sit down, chill out and look cool, like you’ve just run into your long lost best friend.
Don’t spit the dummy and throw ya toys outta de pram.
One day, I crossed a road near the mitsukoshi building near taipei main station. I crossed it without using the place for pedestrian that was 10 meters away, because the cars were stopped at the red light and I could walk between them. In my country pedestrian are crossing the road like this legally and in a safe way (because the cars cannot move anyway). In Taiwan, it is illegal and also dangerous (because here there is a lot of motorcycle that continue to move where the cars can’t). I policeman saw me and asked me my ID. I gave it to him, and he told me that I should not cross the road like this and that he should give me a ticket for what I have done. I told him that I was sorry and that I didn’t know it was illegal. The cop gave me back the ID and didn’t give me any ticket.
My opinion about this cop is that he is doing is work perfectly by informing me about the law in Taiwan, and not because he didn’t give me a ticket.
Most of the policemen in Taipei are like this - they are doing a great job. You can be confident in them. So if one of them ask you your ID and keep it with him, stay calm, wait, he might have a reason … he might want to check something. Don’t act like what you did, and you won’t have such problems. From my point of view, he was not rude with you, he was just doing his job. But you, you were rude to him.
I don’t agree that the cops here are doing a great job. They are lazy, incompetent and won’t help you if you need it. They ticket the most minor traffic offenses while ignoring life-threatening dangerous actions. I feel for the original poster. He’s a newcomer who had a bad experience with a cop who had little in the way of cross-cultural skills and likely an anti-foreigner bias. Grabbing the ARC card back from an officer of the law was a bad idea, but so was the officer’s idea of not communicating clearly what was going on in the situation. Would this happen in a western country? No. This wasn’t a major offense and didn’t require this sort of treatment. Yes, let’s make the foreigner who doesn’t speak Chinese attend a pedestrian class all in Chinese. That’s a good idea. The comparisons between the law in western countries and here don’t hold up. Enforcement of laws in the west are much more consistent and fair.
i have no bone to pick with the poster of this comment, but i do wonder about the situation back home (let’s just say the “west”) for an immigrant there, who perhaps doesn’t speak the language(s). i don’t wanna guess what kinds of troubles they might get into with some of the cops back home when they can’t speak the language(s). and let’s take it back a few years as well, when there weren’t so many options for recourse when the police had taken advantage …
wonder if the only difference is that back home, people can and do sue and win.
Back home, where immigration and citizenship is a realistic option, cops are recruited for their language abilities and as representatives of minority groups. Ie. A Chinese Canadian (like my girlfriend’s sister) would get hired precisely because they could speak Mandarin, Cantonese etc and can aid in dealing with the Chinese community. In Canada at least, an officer would radio for an officer able to speak the language to come and interpret in a situation like the one we saw here. He would not simply ignore you and lie to an interepreter over the phone about what was going on. He would not give you no indication of what he was doing with your ID, even to an interpreter.
I think we forget we are not dealing with fair, just and competent law enforcement here. I hate to call a spade a spade so openly, because I know I’ll have boys in blue supporters down my throat over this. Train, do you rememeber when your friend had his car damaged and got clubbed on the head? He didn’t file a complaint with the cops. We know why. It wouldn’t do any good here. Another acquaintance related another similar story. He was behind some cars moving slowly when he beeped his horn. Suddenly a bunch of cars boxed him in and a bunch of thugs got out and thrashed his car. He got license plate numbers and the culprits were found. Turned out though, the guys had connections and got off with paying the bill only, no punishment or prosecution. Sorry if I side with the forigner in the jaywalking case.
In the west laws are more respected and enforced consistently. Those enforcing the laws are held to higher degrees of accountability and fairness. That is to say, someone wouldn’t be harrassed for a questionable jaywalking offense while drivers get away with near homicidal antics on the road. Yes, you would get done for jaywalking in the west. But you’re even more likely to get done for serious traffic offenses.
I think the cop behaved very unreasonably here. The clincher is the translator. He didn’t inform the person he stopped, even through the offered translator, what he was doing. It’s a typical example of a local cop giving out a ticket on a silly misdemeaner while several cars run red lights in front of him. Sorry. I’m very solidly on the side of the foreigner on this one.
I disagree. Just as a wild example take NYC, where I come from, and must surely be one of the most cosmopolitan cities on earth. Imagine a cop takes someone’s license to check. He’ll tell you in English what you did. If you don’t understand you’re out of luck chuck. as if you didn’t know anyway. ok maybe you don’t but if i am crossing a street against the light i think i am going to be able to make an educated guess about what is happening. anyway back in nyc for sure in any event cultural sensitivity is NOT going to enter into this equation. you are going to WAIT until the cop is damn well good and finished to get your ID back. there is not going to be any kind of rushing him, much less grabbing it back. i emphasize the word not, as in not going to happen under any circumstances. the words “bad idea” definitely don’t apply to that situation. “retarded” might be closer.
i don’t feel bad for the op in anyway. judging from his attitude, i have no reason to doubt that the cop was making him wait longer on purpose. if he has to sit through the class because the law requires it then do it. so what if he can’t understand chinese. what is he going to miss out on the finer points of street crossing? it’s a form of punishment.
the police may be bad here and the law unevenly applied, but this case is not an example of that.
So lying to an interpreter is ok? I think one of the biggest points here is that the cop said there was “no problem” to the interpreter. He had a chance to clearly explain what was going on to a foreigner who didn’t know. He didn’t. That was unneccessary and unprofessional. It led to the ARC snatching everyone has come down so hard on the froeigner about.
Also the offense is so piddely and nitpicky as to not be worth enforcing, given the sheer size of the traffic offense problem here.
Another example of policing here: My girlfriend’s cousin is a cop in Kaohsiung. He was driving with her in the car one day when he pulled over and said, “why don’t you try out my new car?” She replied, “You know I’m not licensed to drive in Taiwan.” His answer,“Don’t worry about that.”
[quote=“karmaGfa”]One day, I crossed a road near the mitsukoshi building near Taipei main station. I crossed it without using the place for pedestrian that was 10 meters away, because the cars were stopped at the red light and I could walk between them. In my country pedestrian are crossing the road like this legally and in a safe way (because the cars cannot move anyway). in Taiwan, it is illegal and also dangerous (because here there is a lot of motorcycle that continue to move where the cars can’t). I policeman saw me and asked me my ID. I gave it to him, and he told me that I should not cross the road like this and that he should give me a ticket for what I have done. I told him that I was sorry and that I didn’t know it was illegal. The cop gave me back the ID and didn’t give me any ticket.
My opinion about this cop is that he is doing is work perfectly by informing me about the law in Taiwan, and not because he didn’t give me a ticket.
Most of the policemen in Taipei are like this - they are doing a great job. You can be confident in them. So if one of them ask you your ID and keep it with him, stay calm, wait, he might have a reason … he might want to check something. Don’t act like what you did, and you won’t have such problems. From my point of view, he was not rude with you, he was just doing his job. But you, you were rude to him.[/quote]
Ya I defenitely agree now, I was rude to be so confrontational and in future will not act like that. Just curious though, did your cop know english or can you speak Chinese?