Polite is Rude! Rude is Polite! Black is White!Day is night!

You could start looking for a job with no Chinese teachers. You still have a job so you can be patient and find something that you think will work well for you.

No point in being miserable. People who work well with others may not work well with you and people who work well with you may not work well with others. Maybe you just landed at the wrong school for you.

I sense that you may need more than smiles at this point. Exported gifts may be more what you need, and not just chocolates. :wink:

bobepine

If they’re not native-level English speakers, I always found sarcasm to be enormously comforting (in English).

“I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate your feedback.”
“No one would have done a better job than you.”

There is comfort in the double-entendre at times.

Also, in the line of unreasonable requests, remember to do things the Taiwanese Way: don’t say “no”, simply fail to deliver. They won’t ask twice. (Obviously you should analyze the degree to which said failure to deliver might affect your job… :smiley: ) but they still seem to like it better than just being refused. In Chinese, liberal use of the phrase “jin liang” (“I’ll try my best”, which really means “F*** no, I’m not doing that”, and everyone KNOWS that’s what it means, but no one loses face.)

Another thing it took me literally years to figure out is, always give EVERYONE their full proper title when addressing them. They absolutely adore it. I had some hostile admin members do a 180 in their attitude toward me after I figured this out. English forms of address (“you”) are just too casual sometimes to make them happy. If you’re speaking Chinese, you actually use the third person sometimes: “Oh, I’m sorry, the Director is very busy” instead of “Oh, you’re busy.” (A double score: buhao yisi plus full title as address!)

Also, sprinkle your speech with “bu hao yi si” and “xingku ni le” if you’re learning Chinese. These are the oil by which stuck mechanisms are magically made to turn in Taiwan. Whether or not you really feel “buhao yisi” has nothing to do with it. Just say it all the time. I’ve heard my British flatmate put a spin on “buhao yisi” that you wouldn’t believe – well, if you’re a Westerner you would, but the Chinese speakers never seemed to catch on to the fact that she was taking the piss. :smiley:

Ironlady, you are a genius.

I have a smile on my face right now just thinking of the ridiculously obsequious flattery I can deliver that will go right over their heads.

Hehe, I’m going to have fun with this. Tip of the hat to you, Ironlady. :notworthy: :thanks: :santa: :banana: :upyours:

I better closely scrutinize your complements. :sunglasses:

You do need to be in the culture, but not of the culture. Ironlady’s advice about giving face, even when it isn’t deserved, is true. But be sure not to lose yourself to this.

Here’s some specific stuff:

Asking everyone in the office if they’d like you to get them a drink or a snack when you are going to a convenience store is good.
Buying them gifts from the store is probably too much unless one of them brings you something first.

Do not ask to eat with them. That’s going too far. In Hong Kong and mainland China it is customary to have lunch with coworkers (and not eating with them causes a schism), but in Taiwan trying to initiate lunches can lead to serious misunderstanding.

Ask them for advice about specific students, even if you don’t intend on using it, and don’t correct their mistakes unless they are asking for correction.

Sharing pictures you have recently developed can be a positive relationship-building (professional) step, and doesn’t have much of a downside.

Compliment their shoes, their handbag, or something else you think they just bought. Their favorite past-time is probably shopping.

I admit to not liking Ironlay’s last advice. It comes down to being a happy hypocrit or a miserable honest fellow.

Count me out.

I have this Eric kid in one of my class and I could strangle him. No, it’s true, I think I plotted to poison him before but I could not make myself do it.

Anyways his Chinese teacher is one of the most patient and caring person I’ve ever met. I complimented her about her unlimited patience and she smiled. Since then she’s become a friend. That’s all it took.

What kind of a way is that to lie and pretend bullshit in order to fit in? Is that what really makes someone happy?

Count me out.

bobepine

[b]Quote:

…well, if you’re a Westerner you would, but the Chinese speakers never seemed to catch on to the fact that she was taking the piss. [/b]

I don’t find this method hypocritical, I see it as adopting a set of behaviors to get what I want. Remember, the idea of hypocrisy is also culturally-bound, and your idea hypocrisy isn’t necessarily congruent with theirs.

Living in a foreign culture is always something of a game (unless you take it too seriously, and then sometimes you crack up!). First you spend a decade or so trying to figure out the rules (or a friendly person clues you in on some of them if you’re lucky). Then you can use those rules to “score points”, which can be traded for things you want, such as peace and quiet, the lack of requests to judge English contests, the ability to interact with coworkers on a casual basis without becoming either best friends or infighting…the list goes on and on. Only a few people seem to really meld into Taiwanese society as foreigners; the others like it more or less on any given day, depending on how things are going (read: how many “points” they amassed that day). It can be difficult, and I don’t think it’s unexpected that that should be the case.

It’s not really much different from what goes on in business or society anywhere, is it? Only the specifics change. Kind of like playing different versions of poker. You might have to deal a different number of cards, or draw more or fewer, but it’s all the same game.

That’s very true.

I’m not sure taking the piss at other people’s expense to score points is the right way of going about it though.

I’m not good at playing games so this “method” would not work for me. I don’t think that taking advantage of someone’s lack of ability when it comes to understanding language nuances in order to score “points” is very honest and I can’t see how I would feel comfortable doing that. In fact I’m not sure how I would actually do that.

I don’t look at it as a game either. I hate when people play with my emotions and I can’t see how you would like that either. But I guess if you think it’s all a game then other people are just players like you and that might cut it for you. Maybe you do the same when you post too? Say what you think will earn you points instead of saying what you really think, instead of being yourself?

Do you ever snap out of that game or is it like a way of living your life? When do you stop taking the piss at people and become a real friend? How do you make the transition from “game” to “reality.” From messing with people and taking the piss to being a genuine friend? Where do you draw the line?

I honestly don’t understand. It feels like I’m missing something.

Sincerly,

bobepine

Taking the piss is for your own sanity. It’s an emergency kind of release of tension, so to speak. It’s definitely not a way to impress anyone or “win points” (to continue the analogy). It’s better to just do it with your mates after work, but at times, depending on the particular personality involved, we all pop out with anger in the moment. At least being sarcastic hides your true intent from most of the non-native speakers around, while giving you some room to vent, hopefully without losing your job (again, because they won’t “get it”.) As such, it could even be defended as somewhat “kind”!

“Playing the game”, on the other hand, is day to day if you’re living abroad. It just means adapting, at least on the surface, to the norms of the society you’re in. If you think of it as a “game”, it can be less jarring to your sensibilities, which are probably still attuned to your own culture. In that culture, many things are probably different. Most foreigners in Taiwan aren’t going to “go native” (100% adopt everything Taiwanese, including the way of thinking), so psychologically I think it’s pretty normal to retain your own way of thinking and even to continue to believe your own way of thinking is “right” and the locals are “wrong” to a greater or lesser extent. (Remember, I said “normal”, not necessarily “right”.) After you’re there for awhile, you (hopefully) get to realize that not everything in your home culture is necessarily “right” and not everything about the “locals” is necessarily “wrong”. When you get there, it’s usually easier to fit in, and you find that life and society treat you better, hopefully to the point where you don’t have to play the “game” anymore, or at least not as much. But the reason you don’t have to is that you’ve accepted at least some of the norms of the new society – that is, doing those things no longer seems like playing a totally artificial part to you anymore.

Does that make sense?

And in answer to your question, I post what I think. Why would I possibly care what “points” I could earn from a Web site? There is life outside Forumosa. I didn’t even freak out when it was down the other day for upgrade! :bravo:

[quote]Does that make sense?[/quote]I don’t like the word “game” when it comes to relationships. That’s why I posted an argument. I think it’s not a very flattering analogy, but it made sense to me.

As for taking the piss, I agree it’s better to do that with your buddies after work rather then with co-workers. I’m glad you clarified that because I get the impression that the OP is getting the message that this “game” is actually useful at work. I don’t think he was asking ways to relieve tension after work, I’m sure that part he can figure out on his own. My take is that “an emergency kind of release of tension, so to speak” is bound to be quite risky in the work place. :wink:

[quote]And in answer to your question, I post what I think. Why would I possibly care what “points” I could earn from a Web site?[/quote] That question was over the top. Apologies in order.

Best,

bobepine