Political discussion of Boston Marathon explosion

[color=#008000]Split thread from here: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 1&t=119628[/color]

It’s a bad thing alright. However much worse bombing and carnage happens around the world almost everyday.

It’s a bad thing alright. However much worse bombing and carnage happens around the world almost everyday.[/quote]

I’m a US citizen and even I (with all my bias) can’t figure out why killing US Americans is seen as so much worse than killing non-US Americans. Don’t get me wrong, it’s tragic, but it strikes me that my nation seems to expect the outpourings of sympathy as a birthright while ignoring similar or worse events in other countries.

For example on 9/3/2004 when 234 hostages were killed (155 children) when Russians fought Chechen separatists in Beslan. Or the second Congo war, an estimated 1000 deaths per day, indigenous people hunted down and eaten like game animals. Or the Houla massacre, which happened 5/25/2012, a few months before Sandy Hook, when 108 people were stabbed and beaten to death (34 women, 49 children). The videos of the aftermath are still available on youtube, showing people with split open skulls and people holding the brains and other organs of the dead in their hands… Truly horrific stuff.

I’m not discounting any tragedy, just genuinely confused as to why almost no one in the US even knows of these events but the rest of the world comforts us in our moments of pain. Don’t you people from other countries ever get a bit tired of our laments for our tragedies and ignorance of yours?

Retaliate first. Get facts later. It’s the American way.

It’s a bad thing alright. However much worse bombing and carnage happens around the world almost everyday.[/quote]

I’m a US citizen and even I (with all my bias) can’t figure out why killing US Americans is seen as so much worse than killing non-US Americans. Don’t get me wrong, it’s tragic, but it strikes me that my nation seems to expect the outpourings of sympathy as a birthright while ignoring similar or worse events in other countries.

For example on 9/3/2004 when 234 hostages were killed (155 children) when Russians fought Chechen separatists in Beslan. Or the second Congo war, an estimated 1000 deaths per day, indigenous people hunted down and eaten like game animals. Or the Houla massacre, which happened 5/25/2012, a few months before Sandy Hook, when 108 people were stabbed and beaten to death (34 women, 49 children). The videos of the aftermath are still available on youtube, showing people with split open skulls and people holding the brains and other organs of the dead in their hands… Truly horrific stuff.

I’m not discounting any tragedy, just genuinely confused as to why almost no one in the US even knows of these events but the rest of the world comforts us in our moments of pain. Don’t you people from other countries ever get a bit tired of our laments for our tragedies and ignorance of yours?[/quote]

I fucking hate it when people use the ‘worse things happen all the time’ BS counter to whenever senseless killing happens. It is a cop-out and total BS.

Beslan was a HUGE deal when it happened, dominated the news cycle for over a week. As for the Congo and Syria, you are kind of fucked to do anything about that because even world powers know intervention would do more harm than good, some people are more fucked than others, and people in Congo and Syria who massacre their own are more fucked than others (save your inevitable parallels to Western society and how barbaric it can be, it isn’t the same and you are only being an argumentative troll).

Yeah, shit in the Middle East sucks, but it has sucked for 2000 years, and the reason is the nonsense they believe and think about each other, not the blue eyed devil and his ways (we’ve on been a ‘scourge’ to them for the last 90 years).

BUT, this one-ups-manship of worse shit has happened is really smug, trite and bitchmade, and needs to be put the fuck aside. Innocent people lost lives or limbs today because they ran a marathon or cheered on friends running a marathon, and whether the guilty culprits are from here or there it doesn’t matter, they are scumbag pieces of shit who prey on the innocent to forward their BS agenda in a cowardly manner.

deuce dropper: I think you missed his actual point.

[quote=“Jack Burton”]deuce dropper: I think you missed his actual point.

[/quote]

I think you missed mine, I am replying to the second two quoted posts.

It’s a bad thing alright. However much worse bombing and carnage happens around the world almost everyday.[/quote]

I’m a US citizen and even I (with all my bias) can’t figure out why killing US Americans is seen as so much worse than killing non-US Americans. Don’t get me wrong, it’s tragic, but it strikes me that my nation seems to expect the outpourings of sympathy as a birthright while ignoring similar or worse events in other countries.

For example on 9/3/2004 when 234 hostages were killed (155 children) when Russians fought Chechen separatists in Beslan. Or the second Congo war, an estimated 1000 deaths per day, indigenous people hunted down and eaten like game animals. Or the Houla massacre, which happened 5/25/2012, a few months before Sandy Hook, when 108 people were stabbed and beaten to death (34 women, 49 children). The videos of the aftermath are still available on youtube, showing people with split open skulls and people holding the brains and other organs of the dead in their hands… Truly horrific stuff.

I’m not discounting any tragedy, just genuinely confused as to why almost no one in the US even knows of these events but the rest of the world comforts us in our moments of pain. Don’t you people from other countries ever get a bit tired of our laments for our tragedies and ignorance of yours?[/quote]

I fucking hate it when people use the ‘worse things happen all the time’ BS counter to whenever senseless killing happens. It is a cop-out and total BS.

Beslan was a HUGE deal when it happened, dominated the news cycle for over a week. As for the Congo and Syria, you are kind of fucked to do anything about that because even world powers know intervention would do more harm than good, some people are more fucked than others, and people in Congo and Syria who massacre their own are more fucked than others (save your inevitable parallels to Western society and how barbaric it can be, it isn’t the same and you are only being an argumentative troll).

Yeah, shit in the Middle East sucks, but it has sucked for 2000 years, and the reason is the nonsense they believe and think about each other, not the blue eyed devil and his ways (we’ve on been a ‘scourge’ to them for the last 90 years).

BUT, this one-ups-manship of worse shit has happened is really smug, trite and bitchmade, and needs to be put the fuck aside. Innocent people lost lives or limbs today because they ran a marathon or cheered on friends running a marathon, and whether the guilty culprits are from here or there it doesn’t matter, they are scumbag pieces of shit who prey on the innocent to forward their BS agenda in a cowardly manner.[/quote]

You completely missed my point. :doh:

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“Jack Burton”]1. deuce dropper: I think you missed his actual point.

  1. numbnuts: you do a great disservice to Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins if you think you are even close to parroting what you “see” as their views. Clearly, you have no clue. They unequivocally have never said “All muslims” and “All Christians” and this and that - only ignorant fools like you and those you seem to criticise, ironically, make such stupid generalisations.[/quote]

I think you missed mine, I am replying to the second two quoted posts.[/quote]

Innocent people lost their lives at a wedding in Afghanistan when a US bombed exploded killing people. It will be chalked up to mistake and classified as collateral damage. Most Americans will gloss over this. Are their lives worth less than the dead in Boston? Are they any less of a victim? (Btw, I have close friends from Boston, so no I’m not being heartless).

It’s not oneupmanship, any killing and maiming of innocent people is terrible and obviously it’s a worry to Americans, but the fact is there are innocent people dying with drone strikes all the time, women kids the lot, and nobody in the US gives a fuck. Not only that there are massive bombs going off in Iraq, it seems weekly, and it doesn’t even show up on the main news anymore.

This one just happened yesterday- cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 … tacks.html

Skoster’s point is correct, and to be honest people in Taiwan don’t really care about bombings here or there as long as it is not in Taiwan or it interferes with the economy.

oh this is BS: I made a legitimate point emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between individual Muslims and the books of the Quran… who are you, my mother? haha

I invite everyone to decide for themselves whether the following is against the rules:

I will at least grant him that Islam at its basis (ie Quran and Hadith) are dangerous, violent, intolerant teachings that cannot be ignored. I’m glad to say not all Muslims take the book literally just as not all Christians take the OT/NT literally, but selectively. But nevertheless, one cannot simply ignore the large difference between the 2: Christianity has gone through its reformation while Islam has calcified and gotten lost its renaissance (see Mongol invasion, the scientific revolution in the ME, etc). Islam is dangerous and Muhammed was a conqueror - this cannot be denied.

Was me, but I’m not sure exactly what you mean. I did split some posts off to a separate thread. forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtop … 0&t=119636

Say what you might about The Amazing Atheist, but he makes some damn good points about the potential for lost freedoms in the name of security in the wake of tragedies like this.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]It’s not oneupmanship, any killing and maiming of innocent people is terrible and obviously it’s a worry to Americans, but the fact is there are innocent people dying with drone strikes all the time, women kids the lot, and nobody in the US gives a fuck. Not only that there are massive bombs going off in Iraq
, it seems weekly, and it doesn’t even show up on the main news anymore.

This one just happened yesterday- cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 … tacks.html

Skoster’s point is correct, and to be honest people in Taiwan don’t really care about bombings here or there as long as it is not in Taiwan or it interferes with the economy.[/quote]

People expect casualties in war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan, sure death is bad any time it happens, but when it happens to innocent spectators at a marathon for the sole purpose of forwarding some ridiculous agenda, it seems a bit more nonsensical.

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“headhonchoII”]It’s not oneupmanship, any killing and maiming of innocent people is terrible and obviously it’s a worry to Americans, but the fact is there are innocent people dying with drone strikes all the time, women kids the lot, and nobody in the US gives a fuck. Not only that there are massive bombs going off in Iraq
, it seems weekly, and it doesn’t even show up on the main news anymore.

This one just happened yesterday- cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 … tacks.html

Skoster’s point is correct, and to be honest people in Taiwan don’t really care about bombings here or there as long as it is not in Taiwan or it interferes with the economy.[/quote]

People expect casualties in war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan, sure death is bad any time it happens, but when it happens to innocent spectators at a marathon for the sole purpose of forwarding some ridiculous agenda, it seems a bit more nonsensical.[/quote]

Agreed. Only when it blasts to Hell people at a veggie market in Iraq it has some kind of sense.

I’ve got to agree with Deuce Dropper on this. I’m sad because innocent people lost their lives, and I feel particularly affected by this tragedy because I’m American, I actually know people in Boston, and my dad has run the Boston Marathon. I’m not saying this is the most tragic event ever. When bigger bombs go off in other parts of the world, that makes me sad too. I know that US drone strikes kill innocent people fairly often (although they also kill guilty people), and I wish our government would tone down its righteous indignation.

That said, I resent it when people use tragedies like this to pontificate against Americans and their supposed ignorance of or lack of empathy for foreigners. Actually, there are lots of Americans protesting against drone strikes, indefinite detention of suspected terrorists, and US foreign policy in general–there always have been. Besides, the fact that worse things happen elsewhere in the world doesn’t mean we can’t be sad about a bad thing that happens at home. Give it a rest, people. Save the politics for political threads.

the photos are pretty difficult to look at…

I don’t think this kind of killing is justified just because they think some kind of imbalanced war is going on. Equating this to drone strikes doesn’t make any sense. In terror attacks such as this, there is no other target. All they aim to do is harm as many innocent people as possible.

At least with drone strikes there’s a central target, casualties suffered is because these targets are hiding among the innocent. By reading a recent report on the Afghani troops fighting the Taliban, when the drone strikes were ordered by the assisting Americans, the fire fight has lasted nearly the whole morning. Those people really could have just left, but they didn’t. Even without any air strikes, when the troops ends their fighting and leaves, suddenly these houses of the supposedly “innocent” people would have guns shooting at the troops as they leave.

NOBODY said these killings were justified, read the bloody text.

That’s BS saying drone strikes are any better, there is deliberate killing of civilians going on , they are accepted as collateral damage because they are NOT AMERICAN. It’s all very calculated. It’s deemed acceptable losses.

There is very little sympathy or media coverage for these innocents or any of the innocent people killed during wartime operations or even in countries such as Pakistan which are not even at war.

Many of us come from nations that have suffered much worse in terms of terrorism per head of population. Please save your indignation and get on with your lives without being dragged into a media securistate frenzy. Please save us from this sudden false righteousness, America is a land that believes in violence to solve problems.

The main reason why this was brought up is because of the Muslim thing earlier which has now been expunged

No innocent civilians here. Anyone in the blast zone is a fair target because, according to the rules, until proven posthumously otherwise they’re “up to no good” and deserve to die.

[quote]The Obama administration has in turn been secretive about its use of targeted drone strikes, boasted about the program’s success, and fended off critics who say the strikes are killing and injuring too many civilians. A New York Times story published Tuesday has the administration’s human rights critics buzzing again. A key revelation comes near the end of the article, written by Jo Becker and Scott Shane, under the heading, “‘They Must All Be Militants.’”

Obama, Becker and Shane write, was angry when informed that the first drone strike after he took office had killed innocent Pakistanis. But one of the measures the administration embraced to prevent future innocent casualties was to embrace a method of counting combatants that would rope in more innocents.

“It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent,” the Times reports. “Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good.”[/quote]

When the valid point gets raised, ‘why are not all deaths equal deaths?’ it gets confused with, ‘are some deaths more important than others?’ This is a slightly different question and the respondent will feel differently about the questioner accordingly.

It is valid to ask why Boston is a tragedy whereas the bombing of a wedding in another country gets, by comparison, fairly little air time. It doesn’t have to be a question about if America is right to be at war. It can be a question about how we can view two deaths of two different strangers as having two different levels of importance. Why are they not viewed equally? THAT is a good question to answer, because you don’t have to defend your politics or your former or current homes. But I suspect there is less jumping up and down to be done in such a situation.

My answer: things which take place closer to us have more importance than things which take place further away. Geographic distance altering levels of importance is an observable phenomenon. In flashbulb memories this is certainly observed.

So the Boston bomb thread was heavily edited and many people including moderators of the forum got the wrong end of the stick. They are intent on turning it into a media created pityfest instead of a rational discussion.

I had some harsh words written that will stick in people’s craw, but America is a land that lives by violence, to pretend otherwise is simply sticking one’s fingers in one’s ears and one’s head in a bucket.

Yesterday a bomb went off in Iraq and 55 people were killed…but that’s okay, it WAS a warzone (seems some people don’t know the war is supposed to have ended), and anyways it’s FAR away and they are Muslims or something.

In the meantime about 30 people were killed in homicides (daily average in US) and 50 will have shot themselves to death.

I’m sorry for the people who were caught up in that bombing but I’m not going to be censored either.

[quote]NOBODY said these killings were justified, read the bloody text.

That’s BS saying drone strikes are any better, there is deliberate killing of civilians going on , they are accepted as collateral damage because they are NOT American. It’s all very calculated. It’s deemed acceptable losses.

There is very little sympathy or media coverage for these innocents or any of the innocent people killed during wartime operations or even in countries such as Pakistan which are not even at war.

Many of us come from nations that have suffered much worse in terms of terrorism per head of population. Please save your indignation and get on with your lives without being dragged into a media securistate frenzy. Please save us from this sudden false righteousness, America is a land that believes in violence to solve problems.

The main reason why this was brought up is because of the Muslim thing earlier which has now been expunged[/quote]