Poll question for Green and Blue supporters

Question for Blue supporters: [color=#0000BF]“Would you ever support formal, de jure independence for Taiwan (not just status quo autonomy!) in the event that China launched a major, unprovoked military attack against Taiwan without warning (and Taiwan had done nothing to move towards independence or provoke China)?”[/color]

Question for Green supporters: [color=#008000] “Would you ever support unification with China in the event that China became so different, democratized, free and prosperous to the point that it was essentially a much larger version of Taiwan?”[/color]

Most blue supporters support independence anyway, so the first question is kind of pointless.

Agreed. Very few people at this juncture support unification, although the president seems to be one of them.

Just for clarification, I have edited my thread - by “independence,” I mean formal, declared, announced, official independence - NOT just the status quo autonomy of right now.

Not sure if you mean status quo (which is technically a separate existence from China,) but I mean actual, formal, officially declared independence.

Not sure if you mean status quo (which is technically a separate existence from China,) but I mean actual, formal, officially declared independence.[/quote]

Every blue supporter I know a)doesn’t like China and b)says Taiwan is an independent country.

Also it is official DPP policy that all options are open for the future, including unification if the public decides on that.

It’s doubtful Taiwanese would want to, even in the event China became a democracy. The idea that China, with it’s 1.5 billion people and 50+ ethnic groups dozens of languages and monolithic size would ever be “just like Taiwan” is suspect.

And Taiwan would have nothing to gain from a political union that ceded authority to Beijing. An economic union, sure. But they already have that.

I think classifying the blue/green divide as unification/independence supporters is a bit simplistic. 20 years ago that may have been the case, but the parties are growing more mature and nuanced in their beliefs. Of course, there is a lot more growing left to be done.

The greens sure, the blues? Really? Care to give an example?

yes. If China becomes democratized enough where a referendum for Taiwan/Tibet/Turkistan/Inner Mongolia would be allowed and result accepted, where people’s speech, life-style, religion, language, ethnicity are free of persecution, and majority of the nation’s resources are dedicated to education, improving infrastructure for the needed, and environmental protection, instead of building up a war machine, then I can consider for Taiwan to join the Chinese state.

A.K.A. not happening in another 5000 years.

Referring to Hokwongwei above, I think it is usually the foreigners being die-hard pro-independence fans while the locals tend to compromise. Foreigners have the passport ready at hand while the locals think they must actually live through the whole stuff in case of a crisis. So I usually shy away from such discussions.
Probably should have stayed quiet then.

[quote=“bob_honest”]Referring to Hokwongwei above, I think it is usually the foreigners being die-hard pro-independence fans while the locals tend to compromise. Foreigners have the passport ready at hand while the locals think they must actually live through the whole stuff in case of a crisis. So I usually shy away from such discussions.
Probably should have stayed quiet then.[/quote]
Don’t do that. Chinese are foreigners but they are not shy away from this topic.

how does support blue support independence. if you mean by they support the status quo, thus supports independence, that’s pretty much kidding themselves. status quo = giving China more time to prepare for economic and military invasion.

how does support blue support independence. if you mean by they support the status quo, thus supports independence, that’s pretty much kidding themselves. status quo = giving China more time to prepare for economic and military invasion.[/quote]

Read my second reply on page one where I answered that question.

how does support blue support independence. if you mean by they support the status quo, thus supports independence, that’s pretty much kidding themselves. status quo = giving China more time to prepare for economic and military invasion.[/quote]

It’s simple: because they don’t understand what the party they are voting for represents. The KMT reinforces misunderstandings by emphasizing “status quo” and “defending Taiwan” instead of clearly stating their intentions.

[quote=“cfimages”]
Every blue supporter I know a)doesn’t like China and b)says Taiwan is an independent country.[/quote]

I think every is a exaggeration. Besides, a majority of blue supporters says stuff like this:

articles.washingtonpost.com/2012 … -jimmy-lai
“Whether you like it or not, unification is going to happen sooner or later,” said Tsai, the chairman of Want Want Group, a sprawling conglomerate comprising a giant food business, media interests, hotels, hospitals and real estate.
蔡衍明今年1月接受美國《華盛頓郵報》專訪,說出「無論你喜不喜歡、統一是遲早的事」、談到天安門事件時說「我知道並不是真的有那麼多人死掉」

worldjournal.com/view/full_n … 8%E6%89%B9
花蓮縣政府民政處長周傑民昨天上午送新兵入伍致詞時提及「兩岸的統一是必然的」

I don’t think people who hold this view is a rare minority in blue camp, and most blue supporters know by keeping status quo they can reach the eventual unification.

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“cfimages”]
Every blue supporter I know a)doesn’t like China and b)says Taiwan is an independent country.[/quote]

I think every is a exaggeration. Besides, a majority of blue supporters says stuff like this:

articles.washingtonpost.com/2012 … -jimmy-lai
“Whether you like it or not, unification is going to happen sooner or later,” said Tsai, the chairman of Want Want Group, a sprawling conglomerate comprising a giant food business, media interests, hotels, hospitals and real estate.
蔡衍明今年1月接受美國《華盛頓郵報》專訪,說出「無論你喜不喜歡、統一是遲早的事」、談到天安門事件時說「我知道並不是真的有那麼多人死掉」

worldjournal.com/view/full_n … 8%E6%89%B9
花蓮縣政府民政處長周傑民昨天上午送新兵入伍致詞時提及「兩岸的統一是必然的」

I don’t think people who hold this view is a rare minority in blue camp, and most blue supporters know by keeping status quo they can reach the eventual unification.[/quote]

Through my work I interact with a lot of blue supporters and they pretty much all dislike China.

Pay no attention to what the big business owners say - for them, they do and say whatever is necessary for them to make greater profits. If they thought calling for Taiwan independence would allow them to profit, they’d do it in a heartbeat. There have been plenty of examples of big business owners in other countries switching allegiances and even changing citizenship in order to maximize profits. Rupert Murdoch is a prime example. It’s not much different here.

Remember,a majority of Taiwanese support independence and a majority of Taiwanese vote blue.

[quote=“cfimages”]

Remember,a majority of Taiwanese support independence and a majority of Taiwanese vote blue.[/quote]

well then that’s a pretty idiotic thing to do.

Though I don’t think voting blue during elections equals blue supporters, some of them simply do it cause it benefits them to do so.

[quote=“printlessfoot”][quote=“bob_honest”]Referring to Hokwongwei above, I think it is usually the foreigners being die-hard pro-independence fans while the locals tend to compromise. Foreigners have the passport ready at hand while the locals think they must actually live through the whole stuff in case of a crisis. So I usually shy away from such discussions.
Probably should have stayed quiet then.[/quote]
Don’t do that. Chinese are foreigners but they are not shy away from this topic.[/quote]

You got a point there.
Though I do not have that much to contribute as I have adopted a rather practical viewpoint over the years as well.
That pure ideology thing waving the green flag etc. just sells better in discussions. :wink:

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“cfimages”]

Remember,a majority of Taiwanese support independence and a majority of Taiwanese vote blue.[/quote]

well then that’s a pretty idiotic thing to do.

Though I don’t think voting blue during elections equals blue supporters, some of them simply do it cause it benefits them to do so.[/quote]

Well people all over the world vote for what benefits them, so in that regard people in Taiwan are no different.

But as one former colleague told me a few years ago, the last thing people in Taiwan want is a war with China, and with a KMT government there’s very little chance of war.