When I was in high school and university I was a provincial level (US would probably be State?) athlete for 800m, 1500m and 3000m, and even managed to beat a future Olympic silver medalist once. This got me involved in powerlifting for strength training. I was fairly useful in the squat (running background?) and the deadlift, but my bench has always been very poor.
After university I basically went to the gym three times a week and played sevens rugby at a local club. In Taiwan I’ve been very poor in terms of exercise and only played rugby at the Tainan Rugby Club on Sundays once in a while. Recently I’ve gotten back in the gym and restarted powerlifting. But the old enemy (bench press) is on my back again. Being weak at bench I’ve always preferred to use dumbbells instead of the bar, but trying to get back into powerlifting this is a cop out. I heard and read on many occasions that the secret to improving your bench is to increase arm strength (especially triceps).
Is there any truth to this (I imagine it is, as it makes sense)? And what triceps and biceps exercises would be best for increasing arm strength with the eye on improving your bench?
Formosa Fitness, M0nster or any others have any advice or suggestions?
I’m currently using this program: Monday
Bench Press 4-5 sets 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
Shoulder press 3 sets of 10 reps
Flyes 3 sets of 10 reps
Triceps pushdowns 3 sets of 10 reps
Wednesday
Deadlift
Seated Rows
Lat Pulldowns
Barbell Curls
Friday
Squat
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Calve Raises
Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays I do cardio. Rest on Sunday.
Just off the bat I’d make one recommendation - If you’re just getting back into such a program as this after a multi-year layoff I would probably 1/2 the weight amount you are using. And I acknowledge that I do not know how much you are using. Still, cut it in 1/2 for the first 3 months at least.
The reason I say this is that you are in a critical stage of re-building all those connective joints, bits and tissues that have not been exerting against weight for a long-time. Take it very slow in helping those joints, tendons, ligaments, connecting muscles, etc. strengthen back-up. Bench pressing is especially hard on the shoulder group.
And you’re right about the tricep group in its importance for benching. Also anterior deltoids. Keeping the back flat while pressing will also help avoid injury.
Dumbell raises, front & side, will help with strengthening the shoulder groups.
Its better to “under-lift” when starting or re-starting a weight program than it is to try too much weight based on what one once was pushing, pulling or lifting.
Re-build slowly and you’ll make safer and more consistent progress.
I think others might have some additional tips - Good Luck to Ya…
(notice how I tactfully did not mention anything about age?)
[quote=“bismarck”]… But the old enemy (bench press) is on my back again. Being weak at bench I’ve always preferred to use dumbbells instead of the bar, but trying to get back into powerlifting this is a cop out. I heard and read on many occasions that the secret to improving your bench is to increase arm strength (especially triceps)…
I’m currently using this program: Monday
Bench Press 4-5 sets 12, 10, 8, 6 reps
[/quote]
Just my opinion on this stuff so take what makes sense, if any.
The first thing I noticed was that you’re looking for powerlifting results and doing a bodybuilding routine. If you want to work on maximum strength, then you won’t get there doing bench for 6-12 reps. That’s hypertrophy range and although you will get some strength, it won’t be your primary adaptation.
Second, I wouldn’t separate arms in this equation. I’d work the whole kinetic chain involved with pressing rather than trying to isolate the arms. The energy you’re using for curls and pushdowns should be used in benching heavier.
It sounds to me like you could use a real simple linear progression program that doesn’t focus on so many exercises. I’d recommend something like Mark Ripptoe’s Starting Strength: startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/ … ength_Wiki
There are other programs like 5x5 that would work well, too.
If you want powerlifting results, then I suggest sticking to deadlift, squat, and bench. The method needs to lead to the goal.
My favorite exercise for triceps is dips with a dumbell hanging from my feet … but then I probably don’t know that much about the topic and I do mostly light weights focusing more on form. FWIW
I’m using about 1/4 of what I used ten years ago. Still trying to get fit and get my “muscle memory” working.
Nice.
But I’m only a sprightly 34, anyway.
[quote=“Formosa Fitness”]Just my opinion on this stuff so take what makes sense, if any.
The first thing I noticed was that you’re looking for powerlifting results and doing a bodybuilding routine. If you want to work on maximum strength, then you won’t get there doing bench for 6-12 reps. That’s hypertrophy range and although you will get some strength, it won’t be your primary adaptation.[/quote]
Cheers. This is basically my beginning getting back into it routine. I’m not really going very heavy, just as much as feels comfortable enough to give me a good workout without being muscle sore for more than a day or two. When I first started again I overdid it a bit and my muscles hurt for a week.
I was thinking of doing four three month cycles for the first year: getting back into it, fitness, strength, size, repeat (or re-evaluate).
Makes sense. What exercises do you suggest? Variations of bench presses (flat, incline, decline)?
[quote=“Formosa Fitness”]It sounds to me like you could use a real simple linear progression program that doesn’t focus on so many exercises. I’d recommend something like Mark Ripptoe’s Starting Strength: startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/ … ength_Wiki
There are other programs like 5x5 that would work well, too.
If you want powerlifting results, then I suggest sticking to deadlift, squat, and bench. The method needs to lead to the goal.[/quote]
I’ll check that out and do more searches online and see what I can come up with. Never heard of a simple linear progression program before…
Yeah, I used to do those back in the day, but I think I would have a hard time with dips right now, even without the weight! Dips with your feet on one bench and your hands on another is about what I can do now, including some extra weight resting on the legs.
The idea is start at what weight you can in the program and add a little weight every week or even every workout if you can. You progress as long as you can in a pretty linear fashion until that no longer works and your progress stalls out.
I started doing this with kettlebells and I now swing and squat double 24kg kettlebells whereas just a few months ago i was still doing a single 24kg.
The idea is start at what weight you can in the program and add a little weight every week or even every workout if you can. You progress as long as you can in a pretty linear fashion until that no longer works and your progress stalls out.
I started doing this with kettlebells and I now swing and squat double 24kg kettlebells whereas just a few months ago I was still doing a single 24kg.
You improve your bench by bench pressing. Not much of a reason to do isolation exercises to increase your compound lifting strength unless you are at a stage where you are plateauing.
Dips
Squat
Deadlift
Bench press (or db press, technically db press is more difficult at the same weight)
Clean & jerk
Pull ups
You can do machine assisted pullups and dips if you can’t do them normally.
[quote=“noamchomsky”]You improve your bench by bench pressing. Not much of a reason to do isolation exercises to increase your compound lifting strength unless you are at a stage where you are plateauing.
Dips
Squat
Deadlift
Bench press (or db press, technically db press is more difficult at the same weight)
Clean & jerk
Pull ups
You can do machine assisted pullups and dips if you can’t do them normally.[/quote]
Cheers, mate. Funny enough, I do bench with bumbbells because I don’t actually feel the pecs working when I use the bar. Also, using dumbbells seems to put less strain on the shoulder joints (for me) and gives the pecs more of a pump and stretch.
The negative side is that I can only go up to about 80kgs (two 40 kg dumbbells) as I don’t have a training partner.
Why clean and jerk? Isn’t that more of a weightlifting exercise?
I agree wrt speed, strength and endurance, but not sure if it will do much for the old bench press…[/quote]
Power cleans are fantastic for overall explosiveness, strength and speed. All of these things can contribute to your other lifts in a powerlifting meet. I guess it just depends on what your goals are, but if you aren’t working much cardio into your routine, power cleans are great for some overall metabolic conditioning.
It’s a great lift if done properly and while it tends to apply more directly to weightlifting rather than powerlifting, you also mentioned you prefer dumbbell bench to barbell bench which really applies more to bodybuilding rather than powerlifting.
I read in an old issue of Musclemag that Arnold had weak legs so he trained them every day for a year at full intensity at the start of his workouts. I don’t think that many people would recommend that these days but it worked for him.
bismarck, take a look at this routine. There are also some Russian powerlifting routines, fairly similar to the Korte one I linked to, except the Russian ones are utterly ruthless. The last week or two of some I’ve seen would be extremely difficult (in fact, probably not possible for 85-90% of humans). Some day in some place far away, when I’m not working 60+ hours a week and doing all of my weight workouts at the end of such workdays, I’ll give it a go.
I like FF’s advice, to focus only on actual powerlifting lifts (the 3). Also, imho TC has some great advice about factoring in sinew strength. Three months or so ago I started working in some deadlifts, and after a month or so of that I decided what the hell and gave it all over to powerlifting. It had been twenty years since I had done any deadlifts, but I figured what the hell I’m still twenty-four years old (hah). Two days after first deadlifting 225lbs, I thought my spinal column had been replaced by a white hot length of liquid something or other. Finally everything came together, but the fact is I tried to do entirely too much too soon. Only after the connective tissue along my back had adjusted was I able to return to 225. TC has that exactly correct.
Thursday evening was a max workout. I hit 335 in the BP, 405 in the squat, and 375 in the deadlift (I have done squats forever; it’s easily my strongest lift). I had my mates in the gym spot me (the crazy as in issues-with-anger-management PhD in psychology and the rude German lout) for form, and these were ‘good’ lifts. The only downside is that I’m eating like a goddam elephant. Seriously. Something has been triggered, although so far my body weight has remained steady.
Interesting discussion guys. I’ve been doing Rippetoe’s Starting Strength routine for almost a year now and it has worked well for me. I just moved to Taipei last week and can’t find a real gym yet. I’d love to find a gym that encourages actual power lifting, ie. one with a real squat rack or two (no Smith machines!), one that has bumper plates for dropping the power cleans, etc. Has anyone come across such a gym here in town? If not, did you guys simply build home gyms here? If you bought the rack, weights, etc. locally, where did you buy them?
I’d love to have a home gym, but I’d need to buy a home first. I have some weights at home (one bar, two dumbbell bars, and E-Z bar and several weights totally around 300kg), and even those few are a huge mission to move everytime I move house. Once I actually own a home I’ll go the whole hog, buy more weights, a bench and a squat rack. One can do a great deal with the basics. From what I’ve seen of Formosa Fitness’ videos etc I’d probably also get a few kettlebells and incorporate that into a home gym.
At the moment I go to a little known gym in Minzu Road, Tainan City run by an old guy that was a national powerlifting and bodybuilding champion in his youth. He’s 80 if he’s a day and still works out hard. I pay something like 6000 a year. It’s nothing fancy, just a normal powerlifting style gym with free weights and everything you need, but no air-conditioners (loads of fans, tho), saunas or any of that. I like it.
I think the 5x5 is a great way to start off, but I think the most important thing is to have a spotter when you do bench. Going to failure (and beyond) on each set will really boost your strength. Make sure, though, that the spotter knows how to spot. Only help when it’s necessary and minimal help at that. And many locals don’t know to use two hands and to be centered. You’re worse off if someone just grabs one side of the barbell with one hand. If you’re able to work out with someone, I’d strongly recommend doing that, especially on bench days. Good luck!!!
Still trying to get fit and get my “muscle memory” working.
