Not saying I agree with the fear… but I often hear/read it described as a fear that FLG will turn into something like the Taiping Rebellion groups.
I don’t doubt that Chinese police have less scruples due to the way the system works over there, but the particular accusations by FLG is entirely from a biased source. In fact, I challenge ANYONE to find anything about this from a non-FLG source. No, no, don’t give me crap from Minghui, or Falun net, or Zhengjian, or Clearwisdom, or Clearharmony, or Epoch Times, or Dajiyuan, or Xinsheng, or New Century net, or Sound of Hope, or Renminbao, or Boxun, or Peacehall, or who knows what else among those dozens upon dozens of nearly identical propaganda websites set up by FLG.
FLG is good at taking advantage of the fact that China has a controlled press by writing anything they wish to write, whether true or not, just because nothing the PRC press will ever say on the matter is trusted. Frankly I don’t see why their unsubstantiated news (which is most of it) should carry any weight just because they are an alleged “victim group”.
As for FLG itself, they’ve existed for a long while before being labelled a cult and in fact had the blessings of the PRC government as a traditional qi-gong group. It was never a problem until they morphed into an overtly political organization bent on discrediting the PRC. Of course overseas FLG puts on a “quack religion” show, but that’s not what FLG is really about.
Based on the scale of their organizational resources (what with dozens of separate web sites, newspapers, translated into 15 different languages, a radio station, etc.) built up in an extremely short time, it is my guess that they have quite a money pipe to some external anti-PRC backers in certain government(s), if you get my drift. Shit, they are easily 100 times more advertised than even those Tibetan exiles – they have to have funding on the order of those Xtian televangelist groups.
[quote=“zeugmite”]
FLG is good at taking advantage of the fact that China has a controlled press by writing anything they wish to write, whether true or not, just because nothing the PRC press will ever say on the matter is trusted. Frankly I don’t see why their unsubstantiated news (which is most of it) should carry any weight just because they are an alleged “victim group”.
As for FLG itself, they’ve existed for a long while before being labelled a cult and in fact had the blessings of the PRC government as a traditional qi-gong group. It was never a problem until they morphed into an overtly political organization bent on discrediting the PRC. Of course overseas FLG puts on a “quack religion” show, but that’s not what FLG is really about. [/quote]
What makes you say “quack religion?” Look, I think the guy who runs it is a loony, but I don’t go around so lightly labeling other faiths as false. Just because it is a little strange (and after having heard what they offer by their own information sources, i can’t say i would rush out and join) doesn’t make it quack. I have met members who genuinely follow FLG teachings. Strange, yes. A quack? that is a personal observation that says a lot about the one who calls it that.
As for their desire to discredit the PRC, if anyone’s motives are merited, theirs are. I would agree with you if the PRC govt was a bit more low-key in dealing with them. However, I have to say the Chinese have dug their own pit on this one. The anti-FLG rhetoric from the Chinese government (Kind of like their tone on many things — Taiwan anyone?) is shrill. Hell, I have stayed in hotels in China that make it a point (undoubtedly at state insistance since any hotel i have ever stayed in in China short of 4 star would rent rooms to almost anyone who would pay and who wasn’t going to burn the place down) to post a sign that says “we refuse to rent rooms to the ‘evil members’ of the Falun Gong.” Give me a break!
What makes a doctor a “quack?” By claiming to cure when he does not or is incapable.
The guy who heads FLG claims he can walk through walls, has telekinesis, can place a “wheel” in the stomachs of practitioners, and can cure illnesses through manipulating said wheels. Let’s lay off on the last two points, can he do the first two? Hell no. It is beyond a little strange. It is false. What does it say about me? Maybe that I pay attention?
And what of their motives? Look, if there is a poster child to make the case for religious freedom in China, FLG ain’t it. In fact, FLG isn’t even interested in promoting religious freedom in China. They are only interested in discrediting the PRC (actually Jiang Zemin in particular). Ok, we already know the PRC is shrill by Western standards – nice comedy show, FLG, nothing new here, move along. That’s why I don’t give a shit about their unsubstantiated claims.
Yeah, whatever. I’ll take that any day over green hats putting up signs that say “Ch!nks and dogs forbidden in this park” and “Ch!nks fuck off” in Kaohsiung. At least there is no telling who is or is not an “evil member” of the FLG if one wants to remain anonymous.
"Since the crackdown on Falun Gong began in 1999, several hundred Falun Gong adherents reportedly died in custody due to torture, abuse, and neglect (see Section 2.c.). During the year, the Government arrested Falun Gong members and formally charged them with manufacturing claims that they were tortured. . .
Sexual and physical abuse and extortion were reported in some detention centers. Forced labor in prisons and reeducation-through-labor camps was also common. . .
During the year, allegations of abuse of Falun Gong practitioners by the police and other security personnel continued. According to the foreign-based Global Mission to Rescue Persecuted Falun Gong Practitioners, 1,047 Falun Gong practitioners, including children and the elderly, have died since 1997 as a result of official persecution (see Section 1.c.). Other groups based abroad estimated that as many as 2,000 practitioners have died in custody. . ."
state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41640.htm
[color=blue]The above is from the U.S. State Department’s just-released report on the status of human rights in China. There’s enough independent evidence to lend credibility to Falun Gong claims of murder and sexual abuse of its adherents in Chinese prisons. Until China opens up its prisons to independent inspection by NGO’s such as the Red Cross, these claims should be taken seriously.
The moral of all this though is the Chinese government policies of violating human rights in the name of national order and security is nothing more than an extreme example of the same “the ends justify the means” policies that the Bush Administration has adopted in the name of national security in its post-911 lurch towards fanaticism. The murders, sexual abuse, detentions without trial or even charges that the U.S. is guility of aren’t ameliorated by the fact that a few lower-level patsies have been put in prison over them or token changes made to their implementation. Until those who fostered and ordered these crimes are also punished the U.S. differs only in degree from the P.R.C. – which it itself is busily pointing out.[/color]
spook -
You look stunning in [color=blue]blue.[/color]
Thanks for posting this. I had this as sourcing also.
Amazing what one can find if one actually looks for it.
Of course I am referring to your State Dept link.
Your second part is pure agenda driven horse hockey.
Sounds like that’s where the info comes from. Boy, what a mouthful. It is run by, guess what? FLG.
These internet “research” just gets quoted and pasted around and around to no end. I haven’t tried this, but I’ll wager that if you follow the thread back on any of these, you will end up at FLG. There is not much “independent” evidence to lend any credibility to Falun Gong.
As for the PRC police, I already said, they aren’t your buddies. But I’m not gonna treat FLG propaganda like it’s worth more than PRC propaganda, which it isn’t.
I would think it’s fair to say the CCP does this sort of thing. As the CCP has taken an extreme dislike to the FLG, I would be surprised if they didn’t beat the crap out of a few of them every so often.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]spook -
You look stunning in [color=blue]blue.[/color]
Thanks for posting this. I had this as sourcing also.
Amazing what one can find if one actually looks for it.
Of course I am referring to your State Dept link.
Your second part is pure agenda driven horse hockey.[/quote]
It’s worthwhile keeping in mind that “pure agenda driven horse hockey” is a pretty standard reaction of any country’s government – including China’s – to any examination of its human rights record so it doesn’t count for much.
One thing that’s undeniable. The standing of the U.S. in the world as a credible defender of human rights has never been lower and that can’t be entirely the result of “pure agenda” alone.
While it may be true that the purported evidence of torture of Falun Gong members in China turns out to be concocted for political purposes, there’s abundant evidence that the Chinese government has tortured and abused others – just read through the State Department’s report – so it’s more reasonable to take it seriously rather than dismiss it.
As long as the Chinese government refuses to allow any neutral human rights organizations to inspect its prisons and a wide range of groups and individuals accuse it of human rights violations it’s bringing suspicion and condemnation on itself.
spook -
Sadly, with this I am leaning towards agreeing.
The worlds perception has been tilted by some very expert manipulators. And also by a very few idiots being at the right place at the wrong time.
Those responsible are receiving their punishment, although I for one do not think it is extending far enough up the chain of command.
But the damage has been done. And, justified or not, this is what many want to believe. And those whose agenda depends on this being the perceived reality are doing yeomans work in getting their message out.
Here is a piece from today that should cheer you up
[quote]U.S. targets spy services abroad
By Bill Gertz, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
COLLEGE STATION, Texas – The Bush administration has adopted a new counterintelligence strategy that calls for “attacking” foreign spy services and the spy components of terrorist groups before they can strike, a senior U.S. intelligence official said yesterday.
National Counterintelligence Executive Michelle Van Cleave said in a speech here that the past policy of waiting for intelligence threats to emerge “ceded the initiative to the adversary.”
“No longer will we wait until taking action,” Miss Van Cleave said during a conference hosted by the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. "To meet the threat, U.S. counterintelligence needs to go on the offensive, which will require major but achievable changes in the way we do business."i[/i]
washtimes.com/national/20050 … -8027r.htm[/quote]
“Miss Van Cleave’s comments came as FBI and CIA officials at the conference said the threat from foreign intelligence services – specifically, Russia and China – is growing.
Barry Royden, a veteran CIA official, said Russian intelligence services are targeting U.S. troops in the Middle East for recruitment as agents, as well as seeking recruits among Americans in Russia.
Russian intelligence officers are using “very aggressive actions and operations,” including blackmail, extortion and entrapment “to try to get people to commit espionage,” Mr. Royden said.
He also said the Russians are conducting “very aggressive operations against our troops in the Middle East.” He did not elaborate.
“We get continued reporting about very aggressive actions and operations against Americans of all types and stripes” in Russia and other parts of the world, Mr. Royden said.
Tim Bereznay, a senior FBI counterintelligence official, said Chinese intelligence activities are a major threat – specifically, Beijing’s covert targeting of U.S. weapons technology.
Counterintelligence against Chinese spying “is our main priority,” Mr. Bereznay.”
TC,
That’s encouraging. Along with Al Qaeda and it’s current off-shoots, the PRC/DPRK alliance are the real threats to U.S. national security. The feeling that the PRC is building its strength and biding its time until it’s strong enough to challenge the U.S. frontally is almost palpable in China today.
[quote=“zeugmite”]What makes a doctor a “quack?” By claiming to cure when he does not or is incapable.
The guy who heads FLG claims he can walk through walls, has telekinesis, can place a “wheel” in the stomachs of practitioners, and can cure illnesses through manipulating said wheels. Let’s lay off on the last two points, can he do the first two? Hell no. It is beyond a little strange. It is false. What does it say about me? Maybe that I pay attention? [/quote]
Jesus could walk on water and turn water into wine. He was also in communication with god. He could resurrect the dead too. I don’t see people running around labeling him as a quack…although many did so in his time. The point is that in any faith, there will be some mysticism. I don’t think it means you pay attention. I think it means you are quick to judge. I don’t give a hoot if the guy can do any of those things or not. But his followers have a right to believe he can and tell anyone they please that he can. It is called free speech.
Oh, right, Jiang Zemin, the FORMER president of China. Yeah, he is obviously pulling all the strings. Haha
And this means you have surveyed all members of the FLG to find this out and can back it up with your data?
Your tone is…although I need not reiterate…telling of your character. By the way, nobody asked you to “give a shit.” Although if you really didn’t care, I doub’t your tone would be so insisting – to put it mildly. I have one word of advice for you: RELAX.
On March 15, the Hong Kong office of Xinhua released the news report titled,
It’s quite easy too uplink into an existing signal due to the FEC used. You can sneak a signal within the bandwitdth excess that some carriers use.
If you make your signal weak enough it can be picked up by those expressly looking for it. The other providers will miss it for a short time but when they find out they shut it off.
This is also used by freelancers for sending stuff out on the feeds channels for uplinking breaking news stories and sports coverage.
[quote=“zeugmite”]On March 15, the Hong Kong office of Xinhua released the news report titled,
OK, thanks much, Satellite TV. I am still a bit confused as to what kind of equipment you need for this as well as where you are sending to (the satellites? some local office?) I assume you do it by RF. Awaiting details.
[quote]But, as a visitor to the Xinhua correctly remarked:
I understood the quotation very well, thank you. I did not say he said he didn’t believe it. I said his point was valid. There is no proof in the matter…oh so it must be the Falun Gong. This is independent of his implicit criticism of those who don’t want to talk about the CCP withdrawls. Explicit meanings are often as important as implicit ones.
As for your assertion that this is more obvious than the 911 thing…quite unlikely…since Bin Laden admitted he was behind it in the first place. 
And, let’s not forget the point, before you attempt to gloss over it again, the accusations, as well as the finger pointing, are all coming from who? From XINHUA. Find me a foreign media outlet of any country (besides Singapore…they are quite sycphantic down there) that attributes blame to the Falun Gong from any other place besides Xinhua sources. I would be surprised if you could.
Not until Afganistan was done with. You know very well I meant more obvious than Bin Laden did 9/11 on 9/11 or shortly thereafter.
You miss the whole point. I think I wrote why it is Falun Gong with no need to refer to Xinhua apart from the fact that satellites were hacked for this purpose. Xinhua need not have said “Falun Gong did it” for any person paying attention to figure out who did it.
Then there is the whole issue of media credibility. Well, frankly your standard is %$@, because if something is true and Xinhua reports it, you won’t trust it because it’s Xinhua. If Singapore reports the same thing you won’t trust it because it says the same as Xinhua. You only trust anything that doesn’t agree with Xinhua. Do you see why your standard is %$@?
I shall teach how not to have such a %$@* standard: pay attention to what’s going on in the world. Then one doesn’t have to trust Xinhua or ANY media source.
You had better not be in a fixed location for too long… so you’ll need a portable 3m dish and an LNB for both transmitting and receiving. You can of course uplink into any satellite that your dish has a line of sight to. You tune into the sat and then uplink your broadcast.
Of course you can’t hang around too long…
You have probably seen those trucks the local media copmanies used with satellite dishes on top for covering new events… buy one of those and your in business… but smaller mobile units are available…
