PRC tourist officials in ROC

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

[quote][url=http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-10-28T022708Z_01_KRA808806_RTRUKOC_0_UK-TAIWAN-CHINA-TOURISM.xml]China’s top official in charge of tourism begins a 10-day visit to Taiwan on Friday, fuelling hopes the trip could open the floodgates for Chinese tourists to visit the island Beijing claims as its own.

Shao Qiwei, head of China’s National Tourism Administration, will lead a 66-member delegation to see tourist spots around the island, including the tranquil Sun Moon Lake, the misty Alishan mountain range, and the steep Taroko Gorge.
[/url][/quote]

Well hopefully CSB administration will put aside idealogically nonsense and let the rich PRC tourist come to Taiwan and stimulate the stagnate economy.

Other than that just watch the pan-Blue sweep the elections in December.

2

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote][url=http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-10-28T022708Z_01_KRA808806_RTRUKOC_0_UK-TAIWAN-China-TOURISM.xml]China’s top official in charge of tourism begins a 10-day visit to Taiwan on Friday, fuelling hopes the trip could open the floodgates for Chinese tourists to visit the island Beijing claims as its own.

Shao Qiwei, head of China’s National Tourism Administration, will lead a 66-member delegation to see tourist spots around the island, including the tranquil Sun Moon Lake, the misty Alishan mountain range, and the steep Taroko Gorge.
[/url][/quote]

Well hopefully CSB administration will put aside idealogically nonsense and let the rich PRC tourist come to Taiwan and stimulate the stagnate economy.
[/quote]

'Aint gonna happen. Just got a story a few minutes ago that he wants to fuck off back to commieland early on account of a bunch of meatheads following him around and burning Chinese flags. Major damage control being attempted as we type. Well done the greens. Shot themselves in the foot… again. :unamused:

3

[quote=“sandman”][quote=“ac_dropout”][quote][url=http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-10-28T022708Z_01_KRA808806_RTRUKOC_0_UK-TAIWAN-China-TOURISM.xml]China’s top official in charge of tourism begins a 10-day visit to Taiwan on Friday, fuelling hopes the trip could open the floodgates for Chinese tourists to visit the island Beijing claims as its own.

Shao Qiwei, head of China’s National Tourism Administration, will lead a 66-member delegation to see tourist spots around the island, including the tranquil Sun Moon Lake, the misty Alishan mountain range, and the steep Taroko Gorge.
[/url][/quote]

Well hopefully CSB administration will put aside idealogically nonsense and let the rich PRC tourist come to Taiwan and stimulate the stagnate economy.
[/quote]

'Aint gonna happen. Just got a story a few minutes ago that he wants to fuck off back to commieland early on account of a bunch of meatheads following him around and burning Chinese flags. Major damage control being attempted as we type. Well done the greens. Shot themselves in the foot… again. :unamused:[/quote]

:doh:

Would we file that under:

  1. Hate the commies
  2. Hate Chinese, because we’re Taiwanese
  3. We’re unemployed so we’ve got nothing better to do
  4. DPP paid us
  5. KMT paid us
  6. All the above
  7. Some of the above

:eh:

Would a DPP’er shoot himself eventually if he had a gun? :smiling_imp:

4

But who is it who’s restricting tourist travel? Is it Taiwan not allowing Chinese to enter, or the PRC not letting their own citizens travel? If it’s the former, then it doesn’t matter too much that he’s disappearing early …

5

I believe in May PRC lifted the travel restriction to the ROC. This trip was suppose to be a spearhead to hammer out the details.

I thought it was a little strange that 3 days ago the Chinese media kept saying “Investigation committee” coming to taiwan about tourism. I mean who ever heard of government investigating a tourist trap to confirm if it was a proper tourist trap.

I guess they were really investigating if there would be TI loons lurking in every corner burning PRC flags. Well I guess they found them.

6

Oh wells, I guess if there are ‘TI loons in every corner’, that shows in your own words, that the people of Taiwan are not only loony, but they prefer to be independent.

7

And how does rich PRC individuals coming over as tourist, effect the independence of ROC, Taiwan?

Rich Japanese tourist come to Taiwan and even the most ardent pan-Blue supporter doesn’t believe Japan is going to re-colonize Taiwan. The Japanese have been actively arresting ROC citizen over territorial disputes.

Comparing extreme pan-Green and pan-Blue supporters, I still believe the pan-Green are slightly more loony because they think burning the PRC flag is going to help the situation. I rarely met an official that would sympathize with a member of the public once they burned their national flag in public. In some instance when an individual is shot by the government, that individual has no to blame but themselves.

8

[quote=“ac_dropout”]And how does rich PRC individuals coming over as tourist, effect the independence of ROC, Taiwan?

Rich Japanese tourist come to Taiwan and even the most ardent pan-Blue supporter doesn’t believe Japan is going to re-colonize Taiwan. The Japanese have been actively arresting ROC citizen over territorial disputes.

Comparing extreme pan-Green and pan-Blue supporters, I still believe the pan-Green are slightly more loony because they think burning the PRC flag is going to help the situation. I rarely met an official that would sympathize with a member of the public once they burned their national flag in public. In some instance when an individual is shot by the government, that individual has no to blame but themselves.[/quote]

Then don’t be a fool and say that TI people are everywhere in Taiwan, unless you seek to destroy your argument. After all, most people in this forum feel that the people of Taiwan should be allowed to choose their own fate.

9

I agree with Shrimpcrackers because I fear the increased Chinese tourists will expose our country to sensitive information that would not be previously available to them.

Japanese tourists are ok because they are funny people and their country is a democracy, which means they will not send in spies or sleeper agents to damage our nation.

You both should stop deluding yourselves and realize that Taiwanese independence is everywhere. There are people who fight for a distinct Taiwanese identity and there are pro-independence people who use terms associated with Taiwan in their slogans or life, just like this forum, forumosa, which is pro-Taiwan.

10

Can someone that is not hyped up on TI idealogy explain how PRC tourist will threaten ROC “freedom and democracy.”

Tourist in general bring money to be spent at the vacation location.

Why would anybody in their right mind be opposed to tourism? Especially when Taiwan’s administration wants to transform Taiwan’s new economy in line with tourism in the region.

Even these super ninja spies from the PRC will need to spend money to complete their mission on Taiwan.

Red money, Blue money, Green money, is still money.

11

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Can someone that is not hyped up on TI idealogy explain how PRC tourist will threaten ROC “freedom and democracy.”

Tourist in general bring money to be spent at the vacation location.

Why would anybody in their right mind be opposed to tourism? Especially when Taiwan’s administration wants to transform Taiwan’s new economy in line with tourism in the region.

Even these super ninja spies from the PRC will need to spend money to complete their mission on Taiwan.

Red money, Blue money, Green money, is still money.[/quote]

Eh? Did I say Chinese tourism will threaten freedom and democracy in Taiwan?

I welcome Chinese visitors, so they can see a better life than in China, I just don’t welcome them dissapearing into the country by the busloads.

Continuing, Taiwan should boost its tourism from the United States, where people make twice as much. Who cares much about China, where only the very few have money and very few travel abroad? Finally given the high occurance of Chinese visitors ‘dissapearing’ into Taiwan, maybe we need to find better customers.

Its silly to look to some of the poorest nations in the world for tourism when we could do better with the richer ones.

Unlike dictatorships, all democracies are much more transparent versus their despotic counterparts.

Actually, every country spies on everyone, everywhere. And the way China operates from spying is very different from the Soviet method. Its just that Japan isn’t looking to annex us, while China is.

[quote=“BlueGreen”]
You both should stop deluding yourselves and realize that Taiwanese independence is everywhere. There are people who fight for a distinct Taiwanese identity and there are pro-independence people who use terms associated with Taiwan in their slogans or life, just like this forum, forumosa, which is pro-Taiwan.[/quote]
As pro-Taiwan as it is, I find this forum refreshing as people are not afraid to criticize. Although many here were not even born in Taiwan, the fact that they spend time to analyze and promote construction, makes it a billion-fold better than places like the People’s Daily forum or Shenzhou forums, where everyone is expected to spout the same opinions.

12

How could they blend into Taiwanese population? Based on TI research Mainlanders are distinctly different from Taiwanese on a genetic level. Not to mention their language and culture is totally different from those native to Taiwan.

A naked black person from Africa has a better chance of blending into Taiwan than your average mainlander based on TI research.

Where do you think most of the rich English teachers on Taiwan are from?
:laughing:

But to quite honest most rich American tourist prefer Hong Kong, Tokyo and Shanghai for their East Asian adventure. To Westerners Taiwan doesn’t have the exotic flare to make it a prime tourist destination. It’s stuck in the middle. Not so underdeveloped to be a backpacker’s paradise, and not developed enough for the urban culturally snobby jet setter.

But to PRC tourist, Taiwan is still the forbid fruit, the land of TI, plenty of money to be made from them.

If they open up tourism, I would suggest a TI villiage be set up, where TI supporters can demostrate 24/7 to a throng of paying PRC tourist. Taiwanese people can wear their traditional blue rubber slippers and burn KMT and PRC flags while chanting in Minnan. It would be a hit.

13

How could they blend into Taiwanese population? Based on TI research Mainlanders are distinctly different from Taiwanese on a genetic level. Not to mention their language and culture is totally different from those native to Taiwan.

A naked black person from Africa has a better chance of blending into Taiwan than your average mainlander based on TI research.[/quote]
Why did you choose a, ‘Naked black person from Africa’? That just came out of nowhere. Any person with black skin is only 0.01% different from anyone else, since we are genetically somewhere around 99.99% identical. I suspect that you may be racist. Possibly even the same Chinese supremacist AC_Dropout that we see on the Shenzhou forums.

Answering your question, about if someone who is brought up in China, blends into Taiwanese populace, well the answer is AC, that they simply don’t. Its a cultural and linguistic issue. And some are caught as a result. But just like illegal immigrants in Chinatown, New York, many manage to stay indoors often. Remember the last major Chinatown fire? How many people fled from those apartments! How come you can easily get an apartment there without papers or proper identification?

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Where do you think most of the rich English teachers on Taiwan are from?
:laughing:

But to quite honest most rich American tourist prefer Hong Kong, Tokyo and Shanghai for their East Asian adventure. To Westerners Taiwan doesn’t have the exotic flare to make it a prime tourist destination. It’s stuck in the middle. Not so underdeveloped to be a backpacker’s paradise, and not developed enough for the urban culturally snobby jet setter.[/quote]

Uh huh, and thousands more apply to get into North Korea when it opens its borders to only hundreds of Americans. The more different, the more intriguing.

Oh yeah, plenty of money to be made from Taiwan, considering how the PPP GDP Per Capita is nothing to be compared with Taiwan, and that Taiwan holds a huge trade surplus with China. You’d think things would be different right? Maybe, just maybe, your argument has no basis. Very consistent I must say…

As usual its almost impossible to determine if you’re trying to be funny, or dead serious, because most of your posts are equally outer-space.

14

ShrimpCrackers,

So now you are arguing Taiwanese and Chinese are 99.99% identical. Unification seems like the most likely outcome then.

So what’s the fear of letting PRC tourist on Taiwan, if they stand out like a Naked White person in Taipei. You said it yourself people like Li Ao, Lien Chan, and Ma Ying Jiu will never be accepted as Taiwanese because they were born on the mainland.

They will never blend in because even though they are 99.99% similar to the Taiwanese, by the mere fact they were born on mainland, they are not Taiwanese and not entitled to the same rights as a Taiwanese on Taiwan.

Ergo, that is why Taiwanese Supremacy a racist movement.

15

[quote=“ac_dropout”]ShrimpCrackers,

So now you are arguing Taiwanese and Chinese are 99.99% identical. Unification seems like the most likely outcome then.[/quote]

What are you Hitler? Hitler declared that the entire Aryan race should be united. It was the ‘logical step’ to him. Surely you’re not that narrowminded, yet you immediately claim that all ‘similars’ should be unified. If so, I doubt you can legitimize the existence of the United States, and that then brings into question on why you even claim that you reside here (since then we should be British, yet America is very diverse nation, so do you think that we should divide up neighborhoods by race too?). In fact if you feel people should be grouped together, it makes me wonder if you support forms of segregation. Seriously, your message sounds a bit Nazi to me.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]So what’s the fear of letting PRC tourist on Taiwan, if they stand out like a Naked White person in Taipei. You said it yourself people like Li Ao, Lien Chan, and Ma Ying Jiu will never be accepted as Taiwanese because they were born on the mainland.

They will never blend in because even though they are 99.99% similar to the Taiwanese, by the mere fact they were born on mainland, they are not Taiwanese and not entitled to the same rights as a Taiwanese on Taiwan.[/quote]
I don’t know what amuses me more, your fetish of naked white and black skinned people in Taipei, or the fact that you confused me with something said by BlueGreen, or that you put so many words into people’s mouths. (If they have Taiwanese citizenship or legal papers to be here, they are entitled the same rights. If the person in question is here illegally, then that person has less rights. Somehow this doesn’t translate for you.).

Haha funny, I never said Taiwanese Supremacy, I always said Taiwan Independence. Get your glasses please! You seem blind.

People from China can’t easily pass themselves off as someone who grew up in Taiwan, because of the cultural background. Habits are hard to change. Different clothing styles, ideologies, even customs! (there’s more to that also). And lets not forget the academic curriculum in China promotes singular thinking rather than debates. “Falun Gong is a cult. China has always been a peaceful nation and it will have a peaceful rise. The CCP is mostly right and is the only party that will lead China back to China’s former greatness, etc etc”

But I don’t care if they are here legally. I do think that US tourists have more money, and that is why more money should be used to promote tourism in the United States and other democratic nations, which are not only richer, but they don’t quite as often dissapear into Taiwan under the guise of ‘tourism’.

16

Shrimp,

How are PRC tourist going to disappear on Taiwan again? First you claim the Taiwanese and Chinese are 99.99% alike, then you claim no matter how hard a person from China tries they can never be Taiwanese.

Could you clarify this position in a statement. In comparison to Whites/Blacks on Taiwan will a PRC tourist stand out more or less in Taiwan society?

Your second concern is about PRC tourist seeking illegal employment on ROC. But there are plenty of Westerners working illegally in ROC as well, not to mention a whole bunch of Asians.

Could you clarify your second position. How are undocumented PRC citizens working on Taiwan anymore of a risk than undocumented Westerners and Asians currently working on Tawan?

I think this might be one of the root issue to TI. Denial.

In all your posting there is no confusion that you believe “democracy” is better than “communism” and “freedom” is better than “stability.” In all your ranting you clearly associate democracy and freedom with Taiwan, especially the TI movement.

There is no confusion you believe that Taiwan should gain its Independence from China because it has a superior system. Unless I’ve been mistaken all along and you believe Taiwan should be Independent because it has an inferior system?

17

You’re having too much fun with this ac. :slight_smile: Let me jump in real quick…

Mainland tourists are increasingly welcomed in great numbers around the world. Just about every nation in Southeast Asia, the European Union, Australia, etc… has embraced tourism agreements with the PRC. In many of these nations, the fear of economic refugees is a perfectly legitimate concern. And towards that end, tourists do face some limitations… for example, they have to prove their ties to their home countries (family/career/job), and they might also have to post large bonds for their eventual exit from the country.

Taiwan is the only country that’s found it necessary to supplement the above requirements with the following policy towards mainland tourists:

  • you must have residency in a third-country;
  • you must be willing to take a 7-day (or 10-day) packaged tour;
  • you must obey a nightly 10 PM curfew;
  • you must never leave your tour group… with the exception of a single day out of the 7 (or 10) given to “free” exploration of Taiwan.

Boy, sign me up!

These policies make absolutely no sense from a national or economic security point of view. Intelligence agents are productive enough, I’d think, to get quite a bit done before their 10 PM bed-check. Economic refugees could just as easily flee.

These policies are implemented by ideological radicals that resist any sign of cross-strait integration for the express purpose of distancing Taiwanese/mainland society. There’s just no other explanation. They understand perfectly well that when millions of mainland Chinese begin to mingle with average Taiwanese, the pressing need for independence will be proven little more than myth.

18

:bravo: Exactly.

There have a few incidents when I have met fluent Minnan speaking people on the Mainland and abroad, thinking that they were from Taiwan. When in fact they were from the Mainland.

If a large portion of Taiwan population mets these people, it will totally destroy the TI myth of some huge unbridgeable cultural gap between the Taiwanese and Mainlanders.

19

We should allow some of these people in as long as they deny being communists to make Taiwanese a purer Taiwanese-speaking nation.

20

[quote]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4398862.stm

Taiwan’s Mainland Affairs Council has urged the public to be friendly towards high-level Chinese tourism officials currently visiting the island. [/quote]

The MAC dissapproves of TI protestors, citing their ignorance of the backroom deal that will allow ROC representitive to attend the Seoul for the next APEC meeting and the chairman of the MAC to visit the mainland.

[quote]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2005/10/31/2003278137

“If Wang is not allowed to attend the APEC summit, [China] don’t even think that Chen Yunlin (陳雲林) will be able to come [to Taiwan],” Chen said.

“[Or] if China lets Wu visit pro-democracy activists in China, Taiwan will acquiesce in approving Chen’s visit,” the president said.[/quote]

Foolish TI protestors. Burning the PRC flag is not in line with the TI Presidential mandate.