ac_dropout has shown that he is not only an irrational CU supporter based on faith and conviction in an unchanging state of total Chineseness, but is also a Chinese elitist or Sino-Supremacist. The kind of people who aggrivate the cultural gap between China-born Taiwanese and Taiwan born Taiwanese. When are you going to learn to stop judging people by foreign standards. I encourage the Taiwanese accent in Taiwan and am quite proud of my very Taiwanese sounding mandarin. Why should a Taiwanese be ashamed to sound like a Taiwanese?
That is really sad he’s judging Chen on his inability to sound like a Beijinger for the fact he was raised speaking mandarin as a foreign and a second language.
Ever hear recordings of CKS, or, for the older generation, hear him give speeches live? That was barely understandable Mandarin.
[quote=“Ben”]
Ever hear recordings of CKS, or, for the older generation, hear him give speeches live? That was barely understandable Mandarin.[/quote]
I think he had a habit of just speaking in the Shanghai dialect.
CKS spoke in a high pitched Fuzhou accent. Most China born Taiwanese could not even speak to other immigrants. The idea of a common language was a device used by the Republicans to try to unite people of the former Qing empire into a Chinese nation. Never was there a united China during the Republican and Nationalist eras.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“Ben”]
Ever hear recordings of CKS, or, for the older generation, hear him give speeches live? That was barely understandable Mandarin.[/quote]
I think he had a habit of just speaking in the Shanghai dialect.[/quote]
It was actually heavily accented Mandarin, and if I’m not mistaken, a heavy Zhejiang accent. Back in those days, many in Taiwan had to strain to understand it.
yes! Zhejiang that’s what I meant to say…shrill as some observers noted.
maowang,
Just like my English is of a non-regional diction. My mandarin is also of a non-regional standard in Taiwan. However, CSB is of my parents generation and attended the same university. There is no excuse for the guy to have an extremely lazy mouth and not pronouce words correctly. There are issues if I have to jump to the subtitles to make out what someone is saying in Mandarin that graduated from NTU.
This is not a foreign standard, this is a local standard. Even taxi drivers giggle when listening to CSB speeches.
Anyways the point is CBS is of a generation once removed from mine. Not the bygone era without standardized education on Taiwan.
A-Bian does the Taiwan-goyi thing to appeal to the masses. Everyone knows this. It works, much better than dropping to your knees every five minutes or blabbering about how your mum’s shithouse has no door. He has better image-stylists than your guys do. Deal with it. Taiwan-goyi is the standard now, not your ugly tongue-curled noise from the north. That China accent makes my skin crawl.
If I recall correctly, A-Bian’s parents do not speak Mandarin at all, he obviously did not grow up at home speaking some Beijing dialect.
Actually I would like to see how fluent ac is at speaking and understanding Taiwanese. He might actually knows how to seapk some but can he really speak it like the older generationss? If you want me to guess I would say no, I suspect him speaking in heavily Beijin accented Taiwanese, I even doubt if he can understand what others are saying to him if the older generations speak to him in our native language.
hsiadogah,
So what you are saying is that CSB is a shallow politician that will use perception management to trick the public. Given his “watch me pull a bullet out of my stomach” trick, I will have to agree with you there.
steve101,
To satisfy your curiousity I have no problem communication with my A-ma from Yilan, who can only speak Japanese and Minnan Hua. I am native as they say.
You are a twat, as they say.
Right, but can you speak Minnan Hua the same as your A-ma? Can you read a book out loud in Minnan Hua fluently? Do you really have the same fluency in Minnanese as your older generations? I seriously doubt so.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]maowang,
Just like my English is of a non-regional diction. My Mandarin is also of a non-regional standard in Taiwan. However, CSB is of my parents generation and attended the same university. There is no excuse for the guy to have an extremely lazy mouth and not pronouce words correctly. There are issues if I have to jump to the subtitles to make out what someone is saying in Mandarin that graduated from NTU.
This is not a foreign standard, this is a local standard. Even taxi drivers giggle when listening to CSB speeches.
Anyways the point is CBS is of a generation once removed from mine. Not the bygone era without standardized education on Taiwan.[/quote]
dropkick you are so missing the point here; to hardcore taiwanese politicos beijinghua is the language of the oppressor… do you really think CSB spent his time in prison learning how to roll his “r”'s? yes he’s an NTU grad but NTU is also the center of minnan language study and there was prolly little pressure on him to speak much beijinghua. simple fact is he speaks it like a distant 2nd tongue, just like the vast majority of southern taiwanese males…
Bear, I think ac gets the point exactly. Chen almost certainly strengthens his accent when taking to a predominantly Taiwanese crowd. So what? What politician doesn’t alter his speech? What person doesn’t? Bear and AC do you use the same words, the same tone to talk to your momma and your friends?
AC is right that a lot of people find Chen’s poor Mandarin humorous if not embarrassing. In the same way intelligent people cringe when they hear Bush speak. Both men are held to higher standards because they have received a good education. Bush at least has an excuse in that his blunders are congenital.
Chen can speak the way he likes, but there’s no doubt he should be able to speak Mandarin with a proper accent unless he is just not very bright, has a complete tin ear, or doesn’t care. Or thinks it will win him more votes.
Interesting topic.
I have always wondered why Chen Shu-bian often refers to himself in the third person, “A-bian is happy to be here tonight” or “A-bian feels your pain” (OK, he probably didn’t say that last one, but you get the idea).
Is there a tradition of doing this in Chinese or Taiwanese culture or speech? “Laoban hen shengqi.” “Baba hen e.”
Why is it done? Why not just say “I” (“wo”) instead of “A-bian”?
[quote=“ac_dropout”]maowang,
Just like my English is of a non-regional diction. My Mandarin is also of a non-regional standard in Taiwan. However, CSB is of my parents generation and attended the same university. There is no excuse for the guy to have an extremely lazy mouth and not pronouce words correctly. There are issues if I have to jump to the subtitles to make out what someone is saying in Mandarin that graduated from NTU.
This is not a foreign standard, this is a local standard. Even taxi drivers giggle when listening to CSB speeches.
Anyways the point is CBS is of a generation once removed from mine. Not the bygone era without standardized education on Taiwan.[/quote]You sick little Pro-Communist China boy. Your mammy and pappy kept all of the standard Mandarin speakers in Taipei to teach the Elementary schools, Junior highs and high schools of their children in Taipei. President Chen is from Tainan where only 50 years ago every one spoke only Taiwanese and Japanese. There weren’t enough of those Chinese invaders down in Tainan to teach standard Chinese and President Chen’s parents only spoke Taiwanese and Japanese in the home! Don’t be such a prick you Anderson Consulting Flunkie!
hmm…not sure which way to go on this one…i also cringe when i hear CSB speak; don’t deny it…but i would dispute the fact that he puts it on…; and short of elocution lessons i doubt if he could improve his accent. and of course as we all prolly agree he doesnt want to improve…he wears his outrageous accent like a badge and more power to him. we all know the background of KMT suppression of the majority dialect of taiwan…there are some in the dpp who would like to make minnanyu the official language of taiwan. as a compromise taiwan guoyu will do; leave the rolled tongues to the fat cats in beijing…
Give it a rest Hobar.
By the way, is NTU the same school as Tsinghua? Or are they different schools. I was quite amazed that the Tsinghua in Taiwan claims to be the same school as the Tsinghua in the mainland. I suppose its alumni are all KMT members?
Who gets to defines the “proper” accent for mandarin? Is there actually a properness to someone’s accent anyway?
You are not going to the southern states and tell them “wow, your have an southern accent, that’s so embarrassing, sounds so uneducated, so unintelligent, so unproper.” Then tell them they ought to learn how to speak English the proper way, the northern way.
After that I suppose you can go tell a British man, “Geeze, listen to yourself with your Englih accent, sounds so funny, you must either be not very bright, or just has a complete tin ear.”
Are we even suppose to be proud and happy if we can speak Beijin Hua well by your standard? What are we trying to prove, prove that we can be completely Chinese’nized by the foreign oppressor’s educational system?
No, actually we’ll be sad if most of our newer generation can speak Beijin Hua and sounds just like a WSR but can’t speak our native Minan language as well as our older generations. You loose your own cultural identity, your own root of where your older generations come from, and become what someone else wants you to be, to be like them.
[quote=“cmdjing”]Give it a rest Hobar. [/quote] Excuse me, what is your problem? Defending the Pro-Communist China Unificationist are we? I forgot, you two have similar views right? Both of you are raving hypocrites without PRC passports encouraging others to unite with Communist China when you wouldn’t dare do that yourself. You give it a rest! Aren’t you the same guy that called me a separatist? I have news for you, Taiwan and China are already separate, Thank God!!!