Currently there are 4 candidates that don’t support TI.
Pan Blue side:
Ma Ying Jeou
Wang Jin Ping
Pan Green side:
Su Tseng-chang
Frank Hsieh
But can we trust the pan-Green side, since the dogma of the DPP is the establishment of ROT.
and can we trust the pan-blue side? i mean, look what happened to lee teng hui.
up to your usual high posting standards again, AC.
actually, there is no taiwan problem other than in China’s eyes (and therefore AC-dropout’s too). or should i say, China’s one eyed view. Taiwan is already independent, and changing the name and/or the constitution is simply window dressing.
It would be more fum to discuss:
- What candidate does support unification with the butchers of Beijing?
- What candidate would sell out this island for personal gain?
- What candidate does not give a rats arse about this place?
That would be the candidate AC supports.
[quote=“Mr He”]It would be more fum to discuss:
- What candidate does support unification with the butchers of Beijing?
- What candidate would sell out this island for personal gain?
- What candidate does not give a rats arse about this place?
That would be the candidate AC supports.[/quote]
1/ Ma
2/ Ma
3/ Ma
Am I correct? 
[quote]It would be more fum to discuss:
- What candidate does support unification with the butchers of Beijing?
- What candidate would sell out this island for personal gain?
- What candidate does not give a rats arse about this place?
That would be the candidate AC supports.[/quote]
This is a blatant attempt at hijacking the thread. Please make your own threads if you wish to change the subject.
Obviously 1/2 of the pan Green candidates can no longer in good faith follow the DPP doctrine of TI. I’m suprise pan Green supporters are not up in arms about it. How can they allow for leadership that don’t even follow their party constitution.
because they are all politicians?
c’mon, get on the cynical train, man. it’ll do you a whole world of good.
Concur to that Gingerman.
AC - it’s fun to expand on the subject, since you are f.com’s thread highjacker no 1. Pot kettle black, if you know that one.
Be fair, how could he?….One of the basic tents of Pan-Blue is to accuse other of behaving in the exactly the same manner as you do or once did. 
It wasn’t very long ago it was the KMT telling us how evil the other side of the straights were and restricting investment. Quite different from the tune they are singing today!
Be fair, how could he?….One of the basic tents of Pan-Blue is to accuse other of behaving in the exactly the same manner as you do or once did.
It wasn’t very long ago it was the KMT telling us how evil the other side of the straights were and restricting investment. Quite different from the tune they are singing today![/quote]
That is because the status of PRC has changed. So this change in policy is reflection of the KMT ability to accept the new reality across the Strait. Whereas, the DPP seems to at a loss in trying to implement any form of international policies.
Oh, tell me what the difference is between 1998 when KMT was against any cosying up to Beijing and now.
Has the government of china changed?
Has the economic system there changed in any major way?
Has the Chinese way of trying to bully Taiwan changed?
By all means, enlighten me.
In the past 10 years I would have to say PRC has changed quite a bit, especially in the area of international influence.
Not to mention the real estate development…
Sent a few people into orbit. They even shot down a low flying man-made satelite.
but what is particularly different between now and 1998?
has there been a change in govenrment?
has china changed its stance on taiwan?
does the PLA still feeel that invasion and occupation of tawian to ‘return’ it to the motherland is still its ‘sacred duty’? (quotes from a PLA general in 2005)
does china have a rule of law?
hsa china renounced its love of dictatorship? (I suppose the same can be asked of the KMT, deep down.)
do any of these matter to you in the long run, AC, or do you just want to merge taiwan with china, no matter what the cost to taiwan’s people? because it ain’t gonna be taiwan that benefits. except a few WSR in the top of the KMT. oh, those are the very people advocating it…
Ma: lien chan’s tongue is not brown enough yet for the whole of china to enjoy, let’s all get down and join in the lickathon.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]In the past 10 years I would have to say PRC has changed quite a bit, especially in the area of international influence.
Not to mention the real estate development…
Sent a few people into orbit. They even shot down a low flying man-made satelite.[/quote]
Try again AC.
china was seen as a major emerging power 10 years ago, that has not changed.
Real estate development, shanghai was rather hot in 1996-1998 and that has not changed.
Sending ppl into orbit does not change a whole lot when it comes to foreign policy, borrowing 40 year old sovyet technology does not a world class space faring nation make.
Try again, try again, try again. :raspberry:
I don’t see how sticking one’s head in the sand about the PRC helps the matter.
How long do you think it will take the PRC to retool some factories and build an invasion fleet these days? 8 weeks or less by most accounts. Shooting down a satellite sends a pretty strong message to military forces dependent on GPS. Seems like asymmetric warfare is operational in the PRC.
Even looking at Forumosa there is now a section for members to post about their experience in Shanghai.
Times have changed. DPP presidential candidate going against the TI doctrine and pushing out hardliners in the party for a presidential seat…that’s funny.
ROC citizens that live in the PRC are now 1.2 million which is almost 5 times the amount that was there 10 years ago.
Here is a Chinese lifestyle news article that was recently published.
[quote]http://www.udn.com/2007/4/14/NEWS/WORLD/WOR1/3803633.shtml
…
唐先生原有意讓女兒念當地的公立學校─北京小學，認為繼然要留在當地工作，應該讓小孩結交當地朋友，從小建立人脈。但唐太太不放心，小孩上念公立學校，學的是簡體字，國家認同、歷史觀也和父母完全不一樣，將來她要如何教育小孩？女兒對著五星旗喊國旗的那一幕，她至今難忘。…
因為北京沒有台商學校，國際學校學費又貴，不少台商被迫讓孩子就讀當地公立學校。芳草地小學就是台商太太們口中口碑不錯，收費也不算貴的在地學校。但想要進北京芳草地小學，除了繳學雜費，還要繳3萬元人民幣 (相當約12萬台幣)的贊助費，而且這所學校相當熱門，就算有錢也不一定進得去。[/quote]
One can follow a Chinese discussion of the article here
forum.news.yam.com/disingle.php?tid=608327
Seems like quite a bit has changed from 10 years ago. Just like my generation of ABC kids changed Taiwan’s attitude towards US and the West. Who knows how these future ROC immigrants kids in PRC will influence Taiwan society.
Maybe in the next 10 years ARC will be issued to PRC “Chinese” teachers in buxiban to teach ROC kids simplified characters…and forumosa will need to open a section up for those posters.
Don’t fall for the easy headlines…an invasion fleet is a, ‘target rich’ environment. Do you think the US just might have plan based around loss of a satelite? It will be some time yet before China can actually invade and hold Taiwna sucessfully. Of course, this might do something to upset the applecart of economic growth. (don’t talk about this bombing the bond market BS, the trade deficit is an economic risk, but not the one you have talked about)
Yes. I lobbied for it because as Lord Lucal put it so well, the hyperpatriot drones fill the ML ones with shite.
[quote]Just like my generation of ABC kids changed Taiwan’s attitude towards US and the West. Who knows how these future ROC immigrants kids in PRC will influence Taiwan society.
[/quote]
Yeah, except that most people I know leave their kids in Taiwan.
China will continue to grow and mature. That is good for China. I say…treasure Taiwan as it is today. It is something rare and unusual - and thanks to the brain washing of our brothers across the sea, may be something fleeting.
However, I do have a belief that the Taiwanese will get along and muddle through just as they always have…
Depends on the immigrant family. Usually for the first 5 years of the childs life the kid will be raised in Taiwan. Once the family is established in the new country, they usually take the kid with them.
The point is that within the next decade there will be ROC individuals totally fluent in PRC culture. Willing to look at ROC shortcoming and suggest PRC solutions to the problems in area where the PRC might surpass ROC.
[quote]China will continue to grow and mature. That is good for China. I say…treasure Taiwan as it is today. It is something rare and unusual - and thanks to the brain washing of our brothers across the sea, may be something fleeting.
However, I do have a belief that the Taiwanese will get along and muddle through just as they always have…[/quote]
As long as ROC is non-threatening to PRC it will be allow to muddle. Once ROC is deemed a threat the end game will be pretty fast.
As for treasuing the past and present. Asia has been forward looking for decades. To revisit old arguments about what is the essense of Chinese were put to rest 100 years ago, to ressurect them for Taiwanese sake seems like folly.
There are a lot of ROC individuals completely fluent in the PRC culture… the corruption in both sides of the straight is by no means different… they just moved from one place to the other once their milky cow started to be more skinny… one must agree that KMT and CCP are good friends now, as both have their own candy jar… when they only had 1, they where bitter enemies… go figure that one out…
AC, PRC would have taken Taiwan a long time ago if they could - so no not even the most trigger happy chinese military man wants to take on the US military, which is in effect what they will do when it comes to attacking Taiwan.
PRC solutions - what should that be? Shooting demonstrants.
Listen mate, I do some business out of China, however when it comes to where I want to spend my time off, China does not hold a candle to Taiwan - most people I know hate living in China, whereas foreigners living in Taiwan mostly like it.
On the Taiwanese kids living in China issue - well most Taiwanese businessmen tend to keep their families in Taiwan, as they have a Chinese XLP to screw. They are more like long distance commuters than they are immigrants.
I find your figure of 1.2 million Taiwanese living in China a bit dubious. What’s your source?
Well I guess that why the wife in the article above decided to move the whole family to the PRC. So her husband wouldn’t get any silly ideas about a XLP.
I don’t know anyone who would describe themselves as an immigrant - they see themselves more as expats. None of them are screwing XLPs. Those that have brough their kids regret 2 things generally. 1) They find the education, even for the Taiwanese run schoold frightening poor. 2) They don’t like the pollution and environment (especially those friends that run factories in Shenzhen or Zhuhai)
[quote]
As for treasuing the past and present. Asia has been forward looking for decades. To revisit old arguments about what is the essense of Chinese were put to rest 100 years ago, to ressurect them for Taiwanese sake seems like folly.[/quote]
Don’t give me this Pan Asian/ Greater China BS. The only ones you ever hear this from are ABCs. It’s pretty funny that way. Everyone else is too busy getting theirs for that kind of crap (which is how it should be).
Taiwan as it is has existed for the past 50 years is a unique and special place created by some very unique circumstances. For better or worse, you won’t see another, warts and all.