Presidential Superstitions

Yeah, right. :unamused: The chances of that are one in eight thousand, seven hundred and sixty. She’s just one more ignorant woman getting a Caesarian for superstitious reasons. Son-in-law goes on to say:

Oh, ok. As long as it wasn’t for a silly superstition like having it born on the same day as grandpa. Having it born on an “auspicious” day is soooooo much better. :unamused:

I hope they gave her lots and lots of anti-biotics, preferably in pills of different colours and sizes because that’s more effective. :wink:

Maoman, I had the same reaction on this topic. Fengshui, superstition that’s what it is. It’s not entirely impossible though. But the chances are so slim.

I had the experience with my son’s birth 21 years ago. My son’s birth was expected for the same day as my birthday but this stupid gynecologist told us that he had to attend a medical seminar (read … holiday) abroad and that he had to induce the birth early (10 day’s to be precise). Bastard!

What about the excuse that she wanted to get back to school as quick as possible! Hello, is surgery easier to recover from than natural childbirth??? I THINK NOT!!!

This whole thing just really pisses me off. Taiwan has such a high C-section rate as it is… it is now only going to get worse… But, gotta have that baby on the right day, cause otherwise he will be an inept fool with no chance of survival!

Oh, I dunno - look at his granddaddy. He hasn’t done too badly.

If Taiwanese politicians and businesspeople only do things on auspicious days then they are doing f*** all on all the unauspicious days. Now you know why Taiwan’s economy is going nowhere fast.

Taiwanese are so superstitious!! How can we be sure there exist things like fengshui, auspicious dates, ghosts or gods? Some claim ghosts really exist because they have witnessed or experienced strange and creepy things, but who knows? We never personally see it. If there is something that we don’t know, then it must be wrong. :cry:

Like gods, who knows if there’s a God? But for example, almost all presidents of the USA have ever said “God bless America” or something like that at the end of their important speeches. Strangely, have they seen Gods? And even on the backside of bills of US dollars, there is a sentence " IN GOD WE TRUST"! What God? My God! Superstitious!!! They must have learned that from Taiwanese!! :blush: :?

I have been told that a lot of the c-sections here are caused by the mothers being afraid of the pain often associated with childbirth. Moreover, c-section is said to be offered to anyone wanting it here.

Our 2 kids were born abroad. The mother does not get to choose between c-section and normal childbirth. That choice is made by the doctor. Anything else is crazy. Why do surgery on a healthy female giving birth?

Is a replay of the birth available on the cable channel? With a time-clock on the screen? That should make it easy to check the claims about the exact time of the baby’s birth.

Now, that program would surely top the charts :laughing: :laughing:

Seriously, in many ways Taiwanese are superstitious, but even if Chen’s daughter chose c-section for an auspicious day for her baby, that would not be a huge sin like you guys were talking about. Jeez, you gossip corner, give her a break! :laughing: Yes, she is the President’s daughter, so what? She, like any other mother, just wishes her baby the best. And who cares about how she gave birth to a baby or what the reason is that she chose c-section? If they hung a dead cat on the tree or deserted a white-foot dog, then I would condemn them too. But doing c-section did not hurt anyone else, did it? No matter how jerk I think Lian Chien and James Soong are, I wouldn’t bombard their daughters for the same reason. Or maybe I’m immersed in this superstitious society?!! :unamused:

Taiwanese women choose c-section (if by their choice) for various reasons. I know a girl who, despite her mother’s objection, wore a pure black wedding gown in her own wedding, which is definitely inauspicious in many societies (western or eastern). She is the type who couldn’t care less about old customs, let alone “superstitious stuffs”. But later on when her due time was approaching, she at some point thought about c-section in case she couldn’t give birth before one date, because after that date her son would fall into another zodiac sign that she thinks has very bad personality (or characters). Is this superstitious too? I don’t know, but she would rather have her belly cut just for “her baby’s sake”!? God bless Mothers! :laughing:

I wouldn’t have said anything except for the fact that son-in-law said that it was a coincidence, despite odds of 1:8,760 of it NOT being a coincidence.

Giving her baby “the best” was not listed as one of her reasons for having a c-section. She had no medical reasons for having a c-section, despite all kinds of evidence that shows it’s better for the baby and the mother to have a natural birth, except in some special medical circumstances. Chen’s daughter said that she wanted an auspicious day (superstition), that she wanted to have the baby now rather than wait due to her school schedule (selfishness), and that it would be phsically easier on her to have a c-section than to deliver the baby naturally (ignorance).

That’s a definite possibility.

Yes. :unamused:

Unneccesary C-sections are not a laughing matter.

Surgery always carry risks. If you choose c-section because your hips aren’t wide enough, then OK. If it’s because you want your child on the right day. Then you are al fool playing with your life, stoopid.

The president’s daughter should know better.She’s a frigging role model and should therefore not spread a supersition like that.

Now, I believe in offering c-sections to all no matter why they want it. However, if it’s not prescribed by a doctor, no anastesia should be given :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

I understand the doubts over the birth of the baby, but it is not entirely impossible. My son was born on Chinese Lovers day in the Lunar New Year which just happened to fall on the same birthday as my Mother. The chances of that happening were 1 in 365 too but it still happened.

The baby is out now and the circumsrtances surrounding the birth may never be fully known, unless of course Next Magazine catches them out. I think I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt because I don’t want anyone saying that I “rigged” my sons birth.

I remember a book which did research showing that people in rural France who stayed in their region their whole lives, were much more likely to be born within a few weeks of the birthday of one of their parents. Makes sense–after all, animals do this. If true, you would expect it to happen to native Taiwanese more than mainlanders here.

We all know that even though the son-in-law didn’t say that, you would still not change your views about the first family. I said this based on the words you wrote in your first post in this thread, and your other posts in other threads. Of coures you have the rights to criticize them, like I have the freedom to defend for them. At least, I admit it. :laughing:

I agree with that, but I would not denounce somebody with strong terms just because she chooses to have a c-section. And even if any woman choose to do that, that’s her business, not a sin we need to condemn sternly like you guys did. That’s my point. By the way, have you guys ever done any research about the pro and cons of c-section and natural birth? This intriggers my interests in this issue. Thanks anyway. :smiley:

That’s a definite possibility.[/quote]
I’ve never said I’m not superstitious at all. We are all somewhat conditioned by the manners and customs or values of our own cultures and societies, more or less. I perfectly know that.

Who says she is a role model? Not only that she doesn’t deserve that, but also: since when a president’s daughter (in whichever country) must be seen a role model whose behavior was judged not by the culture /society she belongs to, but by other societies/cultures? I agree there is a long way to go for Taiwan to give up some huge and stupid superstitions, but my whole point in this thread is that: "the way you guys talked about her having c-section is like she committed a crime so unforgivable. I, as a Taiwanese, don’t think it’s fair to criticize her that way. "

What - you want me to admit that I’m criticizing them? Ok, I admit it. But my comments are based on what they say and do, whereas you speculate as to their possible motives.

She didn’t have to comment publically, but she (or rather her husband) did. He listed her reasons and they were spurious. Her own doctor went on the record saying that he hoped she would not have a c-section, but if she insisted, he would oblige. So it’s not just “her business”. She’s a public figure, by circumstance, if not by choice, and if she wants less press time, maybe she should stop talking through the press, both personally and through her husband. It’s pretty hard to criticize people when they don’t make ignorant statements for public consumption. It’s easy to criticize them when they do.

Why would your nationality affect your opinion? Do you mean that if you were not Taiwanese it would be fair? Pardon me, but that kind of nationalism isn’t conducive to public debate. Let’s just judge public figures by their words and actions, rather than their relationship to us vis-a-vis their nationality.

The main reason we should condemn their behavior is that they forced the baby to be born two to three weeks early (accordign to the Taiwanese news reports). This is abominable. At my wife’s school all the (Taiwanese) mothers condemned the act, stating unanimously, “Don’t they know that babies grow so much in the last few weeks of pregnancy.”

Please consider this matter BB. The president’s daughter did place her child at risk for the flatly irrelevant honor of being born on the same day as old grandpa. They sacrificed the opportunity for their child to develop naturally in the womb at a critical period of its development. And as Maoman has stated they did so in a way that drew nationwide attention to the act.

I said this because your criticism was based on her having c-section for an auspicious day (at least this was what I understood from your first post and the following few posts by others), and those who decide to have a c-section have to choose a date anyway, and many Taiwanese might as well pick a day (auspicious or whatever) they want for that. I, as a Taiwanese, tolerate it if a would-be c-sectioned mother wants to choose an auspicious day for that, though I don’t agree with the auspicious-day thought. I focused this discussion on “her having c-section / auspicious day choice”, that’s why I said it was not fair to condemn her sternly that way, as I know many Taiwanese would pick auspicious dates to do things, such as getting married or burying dead bodies, etc., and even though I don’t believe that, I won’t condemn them sternly. Now does it make sense to you that I said “I, as a Taiwanese, don’t think it’s fair to criticize her that way.”?

Also, no offense here, but speaking of speculation, who quickly concluded the daughter deliberately wanted her baby born on her father’s birthday though she, her husband and her mother denied that? Of course it is possible they lied about it, but still, it is also speculation to conclude they definitely lied about this, isn’t it? :laughing:

Mucha Man, Maoman and others,
If the baby was forced to be born 2-3 weeks earlier just “for the flatly irrelevant honor of being born on the same day as old grandpa”, then it is stupid, I totally agree. What kind of mother would put her baby at risk for such a stupid reason, especially both of the couple, and her husband’s younger brother, are all doctors? That is why I “speculate” the situation may not be exactly what you guys thought.

According to a news report from China Times on 09/27, Miss Chen’s doctor said she had had a problem on abnormal position of fetus (excuse me for my bad translation of these medical terms) in her early and mid-pregnancy (the first 35 weeks), so he had suggested Miss Chen to have c-section, but on the latest check her fetus’s position has turned normal, he continued, so the reason for c-section no longer existed, but he respected what the mother decided (he is pro natural delivery though). He also said he already told the mother the good and bad sides on both natural laboring and c-section: to experience the pain of labor in the former, and to take longer time to heal in the latter.

The report also said the doctor declined to comment if the due date was estimated on 10/23, instead he just said any due date was only estimation, and delivery within two weeks of a due date is considered a reasonable range. Another report from UND (10/12) said Chen delivered a baby at the 39 weeks of pregnancy by c-section, after beginning experiencing laboring. According to another report from China Times (10/07), the doctor said 39 weeks of pregnancy was reasonable (normally 38-42 weeks of pregnancy, B.B. added), and that the baby was in good shape though he was a bit light.

So my inference (or speculation) from the above reports: at first she was already prepared to have c-section on the back of the problem of fetus position, and then unwilling to change due to being afraid of the pain caused by laboring, like many other Taiwanese mothers who tend to have c-section. After she began to feel a bit laboring, they started to pick an auspicious day not far away, and 10/07 (her father’s birthday) happens to be a good and meaningful choice (to them).

~yawn~ You haven’t convinced me. I stand by my original post.

Rubbish. A bit of exercise should tighten the slack vagina.