This is a joke, right? Let’s see… I am a qualified, native English speaking, ESL teacher. I moved to a country on the other side of the world. I had no family or friends when I first came here. I moved to a country with a far different language, culture, etc. than my own… Do you still think I should be paid less than the local “English” teachers. Also remember, many of these local “English” teachers can’t put a proper sentence together without first looking in a book… 
This is a joke, right? Let’s see… I am a qualified, native English speaking, ESL teacher. I moved to a country on the other side of the world. I had no family or friends when I first came here. I moved to a country with a far different language, culture, etc. than my own… Do you still think I should be paid less than the local “English” teachers. Also remember, many of these local “English” teachers can’t put a proper sentence together without first looking in a book… [/quote]
Well, that might be true, but the fact is that qualified or not, your competitors (or at least vast numbers of them) have no more than an unspecified BA and NO teaching knowledge or experience. So if you’re better-qualified than that it doesn’t really matter – THEY’RE the ones you’re competing against. And they can be had relatively cheaply.
If you want paid more, you’d probably be best lobbying the government to impose much higher minimum qualifications on ESL teachers here and to also lobby that these teachers get paid at a higher rate.
I don’t foresee many problems with that. In fact, I’m certain that parents and buxiban owners alike will rejoice that they’re now getting highly qualified teachers for their kids and will be ecstatic to jack up the amounts they’re paying right now.
Yeah, me want paid more! :uhhuh: Yesterday, I was speaking to one of our “highly qualified” Taiwanese English teachers. She said, “I don’t understand this sentence and I speak English good!”. :ohreally: That is a perfect example of why I should be paid more money.
More than what? The amount they’re getting? You probably are. More than you’re getting now? Why?
Also, don’t forget that the government reads the stats and is well aware of how poor English-language uptake is here compared with other Asian countries. They no doubt see this as a reflection on you rather than the education system. This I’m sure also affects the amount they’re willing to pay.
There are also jobs going unfilled. If one is willing to live anywhere in Taiwan they could probably have a job tomorrow.
[quote]I think this debate is pretty clear-cut…
I don’t know how you could argue so greedily that we should earn even MORE than our local counterparts. We already make obscenely more than they do.[/quote]
Pretty clear cut. Most parents are not paying for their children to learn Chinese-English.
Well I would say that the market dictates we get paid more. If foreign English teachers made 40,000 a month, Taiwan would have a lot less English teachers. Some people would not be able to pay their student loans on that salary.
Well I would say that the market dictates we get paid more. If foreign English teachers made 40,000 a month, Taiwan would have a lot less English teachers. Some people would not be able to pay their student loans on that salary.[/quote]
On what basis are you asserting that the market dictates you should get paid more? That sounds like your belief that you should be paid more, not what the market is deciding. The market has set the minimums already and you as an individual don’t have enough influence on the market to make a substantial change. If the pay is too low then no one will take the job. If it’s too high there will be lots of people scrambling for it. If the supply of labor (English teachers) gets too low then all jobs will have to raise their salaries to keep the good workers from leaving for better paying jobs and/or steal good workers from another school. If the market gets overly saturated then the bosses can offer lower hourly pay because someone else is willing to work for 540 NT an hour and have a job while you want 550 NT an hour.
You are right that if foreign English teachers only made 40k NT a month there would be fewer recent graduates teaching English. Instead you could have more college graduates who don’t have student loans to repay or are several years out of university. Just because some people can’t make that work doesn’t mean others can’t. The market will adjust accordingly.
[quote=“steelersman”]
There are also jobs going unfilled. If one is willing to live anywhere in Taiwan they could probably have a job tomorrow.[/quote]
True there are jobs going unfilled out in the sticks. If those jobs want to get teachers they’ll need to offer better pay, perks, more hours or some other way of compensating the teachers for the fact that they aren’t living in a major city. Taipei and other big cities are convenient and people want to live there. They are willing to move somewhere else for a certain amount of extra cash.
I did not mean getting paid more than now. This being paid more was in reference to getting paid more than Taiwanese teachers.
The market will adjust. Fewer people will come here. There is no way that there will be as many teachers if the pay was 40,000 a month. Of course if the economies in Canada, England, and the United States are bad enough it would be possible to maintain the same about of teachers.
[quote]
Just because some people can’t make that work doesn’t mean others can’t. [/quote]
If those types of people really wanted to be here don’t you think they would already be here?
Do local English teachers actually work more than the foreign English teachers? I agree that they are physically present at the school longer than I am but I don’t think they work more than I do. At my school, in one day I will typically teach 9 classes (sometimes more) while the local English teacher will teach 2 classes. Yes, I get paid more than they do but I am also teaching a lot more than they are.
Supply and demand. Taiwanese incomes are not high, they cannot pay for the best teachers for their kids (in general) so they settle on this medium situation and carry on. You don’t get the best salary, the best education or the best teachers…but at least you get something between teachers, parents and students.
That’s it exactly. They’re willing to pay for strictly chabuduo, no more than that, so if you’re a better than chabuduo teacher and want commensurate, you’re in the wrong market.
There is no real reason to pay for the best teacher even if you have the money. Furthermore the best teacher for what? Speaking English, passing university entrance exams?
Exactly, this is a popular myth. Sure, there are some local teachers who work more than their lazy foreign counterparts, but the reverse is equally true. And when I taught two kindy classes and two buxiban classes per day NO ONE worked harder than me. The argument usually goes that local teachers have additional work like dealing with the parents and other administrative duties. How is that different from the unpaid work that foreign teachers are expected to do that local teachers don’t do, such as open houses and various other dancing monkey tasks? Everyone gets a crappy deal workloadwise, it’s just that foreign teachers, understandably in my view, get paid more. The “getting paid more money for less work” meme is false.
I am looking at even more cut hours for the next semester when I am barely cracking $65,000 a month with what I’ve got now. Now, that doesn’t seem like a horrible amount to net until you look at some factors…
- I have been teaching English since 2000.
- I have an RSA CELTA, a 1-year ELT certificate, and a BA in linguistics in addition to attending numerous workshops, training sessions, and purchasing materials on teaching and educational practices at my own time and expense.
- I have held teacher mentor, trainer, and even principal liason positions at my prior schools and yet haven’t gotten a raise in 2.5 years of being with my current employer (this is my third year with them) let alone recognition in spite of having 98-100+% retention (as in kids change classes just to be in mine) and spending lots of time helping the central office with curriculum.
- I can’t get hours with their kindy program because I was told by the human resources manager that black people are too scary to the little kids (I taught 2-1/2 years to 6-year-olds for five years before coming to this school)
- as the most senior teacher on the staff, I have lost classes to newer teachers (white males).
- I know they offer new incoming teachers either the same amount or more to start as I make now.
The owner is very friendly. The staff is very helpful. But I am no circus monkey so peanuts are not cutting it for me. I am so beating my head over leaving my last employer who actually appreciated me and praying it’s not too late to get back in with them.
Economy, schmeconomy… I need a change.
Jia you. That really sucks. It’s a bad old world and it never stops stinging to get passed over like that. At least you can be proud of your achievements, not that that really helps.
Hi ImaniOU,
Good to see you posting. Sorry to hear about your troubles but you must know that experience and abilty county for little. The newer teachers might be getting your classes because they are cheaper? That’s the problem with getting a raise at a school!!! The boss will often give hours to a crap newbie just to save NT$50-100/hour.6)
[quote]I know they offer new incoming teachers either the same amount or more to start as I make now.[/quote] This makes no sense! Are you sure about that?
Not only have I had three friends who told me what they were offered before they walked, but there’s also the time I was in the office talking to the owner and the HR manager burst in and asked if they could offer a candidate $25 more per hour than what I make. They had the decency to look embarrassed when they saw I was sitting there talking about getting a micro-loan because of losing so many hours with the holidays. And this was after finally getting the raise I had practically begged for and being told that it was the highest they’d ever pay anyone, but because I was such an experienced teacher and had done so much for them…
So yes, I not only have indirect reasons to believe this or even first-hand accounts, but have actually been witness to them offering more to new people after only a 15-minute demo despite 3 years of retaining, bringing in former students of mine, and giving them lots of help in improving their school. I’m done with it. Unfortunately, I don’t have the same freedom to know I can get work as easily as other…well, less melanin-enhanced people…
[quote=“ImaniOU”]Not only have I had three friends who told me what they were offered before they walked, but there’s also the time I was in the office talking to the owner and the HR manager burst in and asked if they could offer a candidate $25 more per hour than what I make. They had the decency to look embarrassed when they saw I was sitting there talking about getting a micro-loan because of losing so many hours with the holidays. And this was after finally getting the raise I had practically begged for and being told that it was the highest they’d ever pay anyone, but because I was such an experienced teacher and had done so much for them…
So yes, I not only have indirect reasons to believe this or even first-hand accounts, but have actually been witness to them offering more to new people after only a 15-minute demo despite 3 years of retaining, bringing in former students of mine, and giving them lots of help in improving their school. I’m done with it. Unfortunately, I don’t have the same freedom to know I can get work as easily as other…well, less melanin-enhanced people…[/quote]
Is it any wonder I drink so much? The utter degradation of ESL in Taiwan, and yes, it is twice as bad for you given your “skin problem.”
As for [quote]4) I can’t get hours with their kindy program because I was told by the human resources manager that black people are too scary to the little kids (I taught 2-1/2 years to 6-year-olds for five years before coming to this school)[/quote]
it sounds like they are bullshitting you. Aren’t kids that young pretty much colorblind? I’m quite hairy so when I wear a short-sleeved shirt for the first time, it’s a novelty for the kids - a bit of a shock and lots of gorilla jokes and laughs. But after a couple of classes they’ve gotten used to it.