That’s kind of the point, though – a person should not have to double-check that a potential employer who appears to be running a big, legitimate operation (have you SEEN that school? It’s pretty nice as buildings go) is actually telling you to break the law for his benefit and at your sole risk. And sure, in the Taiwanese wink-wink-nudge-nudge culture, usually there’s no problem…unless there is. It all depends on how much skin a teacher has in the game. If Taiwan’s just another stop in Asia, it really doesn’t matter. If someone is making a long-term commitment to the place, that’s another story.
There is a risk to the employer. The fine’s 180,000NTD, or at least I think that’s what it used to be, if a teacher gets caught on their premises.
Employers know the risk and intentionally cheat teachers. Teachers sometimes don’t know the risk. They should know legal requirements to work here, though.
All the kindy teachers I know are fully aware of the risks. Their employer has a code word that goes over the tannoy if there’s a raid and the teachers are told of the escape route. Sometimes this is to a room in the building that has a separate buxiban address which is used for their permits. Other schools they have to jump over a wall. The teachers choose to work kindy because it pays well, is tax free, is piss easy, and they’re generally not capable of doing anything else.
Obviously there’s going to be the odd newb who doesn’t know the score, but in general the teachers aren’t being cheated. TBH I’m not really buying the whole teacher victim narrative.
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If you aren’t exactly sure how the process works then stop being so adamant you are correct. This is not Hong Kong. The same way I cannot apply my experience in the US to the situation.
There is no “recruitment process” that was stopped or needs to be restarted. As stated, given their minimal qualifications for “teacher” there are plenty applicants seeking employment and this position will soon be filled by another sucker.
Again you are wrong. The position was posted on Facebook which is free to post as much one would like. They are continually posting and advertising on other sites based on high turn over due to their own business practices. Posting employment ads is a cost of doing business, and it’s good business practices to have a pool of candidates to choose from. The responsibility for those costs is on the business not the employee. Running those ads will continue regardless if I’m there or not.
Again organizing interviews is part of business, this is not an expense I am costing them. The director himself John interviewed me, of course he wasn’t working for me he’s doing his job which includes interviewing prospective employees. No one was taken away from any other work.
You are making many assumptions just to prove your point. Of course there was work lined up for me, but because I’m not doing it doesn’t mean “it won’t get done.” Substitutes and long term substitutes are very easy to find and there a co teachers in the room. Perhaps, a business should be prepared and legally employ enough teacher lso they do not have to turn down new students in this hypothetical scenario. I doubt this would be the case, there are plenty of other classes, no business is being turned away as profit is number one not education.
In any case, I am not causing the employer financial harm. Any potential “harm” could be avoided by this employer by abiding by the laws and staying away from deceitful business practices.
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A job is presumptively viewed as an ‘employment’. However, I would like to suggest another perspective to look at ‘job’, that is seeing it as a ‘bussiness’.
You offer your service and they, so caleed ‘employer’ pay you money for your service. In the business framework, whether if the ‘employer’ strictly follows legal demo-teaching process, giving business to illegally working teachers, … etc is really not your concern as long as it would not do you any harm.
Entrepreneurship is an intrinsic nature of Taiwan culture. That’s why the ‘wink wink’ way (quoting IronLady) is common and taken as lubrication of economy.
Reading Recommendation:
Rabbi Daniel Lapin’s book, ‘Business Secrets from the Bible’
However, in the framework of business, any contracts written in words are sacred, even more so than government’s laws.
Interestingly, shady businessmen and wise mafias have a good understanding of that but law-abiding citizens ususally don’t. (They want the government to stick out the neck for them instead of giving out their own one pond of flesh according to the contract.)
Okay then, as an employer myself to whom this has happened a number of times I must have been imagining things when I thought employees reneging causes me inconvenience, delays and in the end more work and perhaps unrealised income.
It seems obvious that the employer didn’t explain to OP clearly before they signed the contract that working without a work permit is illegal. Even if it was explained clearly or it was suggested by the cash payment, hiring an employee for an illegal work is a big flaw by the employer, so the employee can terminate the contract at anytime as @yyy pointed. Though not accepting the offer was the best thing, leaving an illegal job after accepting it is a right thing to do even if it causes a financial harm to the employer.
I also don’t think they are victim when they know it is illegal, and I also think they are not doing their homework if teachers with decent degrees don’t know their legal obligation in Taiwan. But if schools cheat them as saying it is legal teaching while the work permit has been processed, the schools are more bad guys. I think teachers don’t need to factor schools financial harm in when leave an illegal position/status.
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I wouldn’t go there at all @JillyBeam
@ironlady’s excuse is great. just say family emergency. I’d walk away from them and not have any contact or have any discussions with them about their illegal practices because it will just drag it out.
An employer winks at you and you wink back. When one party has cold feet, a narrative of a naive law-abiding citizen is told. Nevertheless, exit route will still be drawn shrewdly.
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Well, is it not quite obvious to everyone that you need a work permit to work in a foreign country?
Obviously you as the employer would not explain this to the employee, a) if the potential employee is old enough to fly alone I would expect them to understand that you need a work permit b) you as the employer might want to keep the option open for plausible deniability, “oh, I didn’t know he did not have a work permit”.
The employer is responsible for getting the work permit.
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You aren’t imagining things, but you are trying to apply your own personal and professional experiences to my situation. Just because you as an employer have been inconvenienced and financially harmed in the past doesn’t make it so for other employers. You can’t unilaterally apply your experience to all. There may be similarities, but this is a different scenario with different circumstances. If this has happened to you a number of times as you say, then perhaps take a look at your business practices and contracts to find out this is why this occurring.
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Off topic:
Are there any other departments involving English in kinder issue? Are they just lazy and don’t want to do extra work to straighten up one of weird situations in taiwan, or are there some strong objectors?
I don’t think it is a weird situation to the East Asian mentality. South Korea recently banned the teaching of English to students under 6 because they feared it would impact the students’ native language. There seems to be a genuine belief in East Asian cultures that this is the case. Totally bizarre from a western perspective, but there you go.
Most children here used to be able to write and read Chinese when leaving Kindergarten.
However, some of the English teaching Kindergartens here in Taiwan took their teaching English goals too far, thus ending up with children who had huge problems, intellectually and mentally when entering elementary school.
Plus, the elementary school teachers were probably not prepared to teach Chinese starting at zero. Have you ever met someone in Taiwan who can give you the complete bopomofo?
All our students know the ABC forth and back.
Also, the restrictions on teaching English is not a restriction on English only. It’s about teaching in kindergarten in general. This should apply to music, math, Chinese, etc. also. You are not allowed to create a school like environment in a kindergarten.
That’s how I understand these regulations.
it is not weird that they banned teaching English to younger kids at kinder, but it is weird that the regulation is not enforced and everyone knows english is taught in kinder. It just puts teachers insecure position, prevents government from getting a true statistics, increases shady business, nothing good effect.
I believe foreigners can work at kinder, if they have required license.
Exactly!
If they did, we could have more of those.
https://tw.forumosa.com/t/english-lessons-for-a-6-year-old-boy-or-a-small-group-taoyuan/168653
UPDATE:
Thank you to all who gave input and shared their knowledge and experience, truly appreciated. I’m sharing this in case anyone comes across someone in a similar situation or with a similar question in the future.
I went to Taipei City Hall, they give free 20 minute legal consultations to the first ten people in line each day.
I explained my questions and concerns to the lawyer and showed him the contract.
The first thing he asked was do you have a work permit? When I replied with “no” his eyes got big and he stated that “the contract is no good you can’t work without a permit.” He asked if the school provided me any training, to which I replied no (contract signed Friday asked to start Monday).
His advice was to communicate with the school via registered letter if possible, but email works as well, that I will not work illegally without a work permit. The lawyer stated that working illegally in Taiwan is a very bad idea (clearly).
He didn’t address anything about working at a kindergarten being illegal and that didn’t seem to be the issue for him - rather the part about receiving cash payment (which I have not) and working prior to getting the work permit.
I asked if I still needed to give one months notice as outlined in the contract, he said no.
I also inquired about the penalty, he said that the school can sue me, but the chances of that are small and if they do so “I think they will not win.”
He gave me the information for the Legal Aid Foundation in the event I do need a lawyer and advised me to contact them as well if I had further questions.
I did not mention the name of the school or any individual. I am not trying to make waves for them nor myself. Major lesson learned during my first week in Taiwan. I can provide more updates with how the school responds if you guys want. I imagine they won’t be happy, and understandably so this will be a inconvenience for them to find a replacement, but I doubt this will come as a surprise.
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