Question for LAW people. (And Poll)

Did Chen do the right thing by abolishing National Unification Council/NUG?

  • He sure did! And he didn’t break any promises, either.
  • He sure did! But… he broke his 2000 promise.
  • No way! He’s changing the “status quo.”
  • No way! He’s giving China room to fabricate a reason to attempt annexation of Taiwan.
  • Maybe…
  • Maybe… but he should’ve started a nuclear weapons program first.

0 voters

Is China’s “Anti-Secession Law” considered an actual “law”? And what defines international law? And aren’t laws only as good as they can be enforced? And humans make this stuff up anyway… it’s not like a Law of Nature.

Any knowledge would be appreciated!

Here’s a poll, too!

[quote=“shawn_c”]Is China’s “Anti-Secession Law” considered an actual “law”?
Here’s a poll, too![/quote]

It is to the PRC, and that’s all that matters to them.

Like most TI arguments, your poll and your questions have no coloration.
:laughing:

Now you’re asking some good questions, shawn.

Yes, the Anti-Secession Law is a law. No, it’s not a “law of nature”. Yes, laws are only as important as the enforcement behind them. No, there’s no true independent universally applied system of international law.

In my mind, the ASL is meant to be the counter-balance to the US’s Taiwan Relations Act. Beijing took a page from Washington DC. The TRA has been a very useful device for the United States, allowing it to maintain its remarkable balance in the Taiwan straits for 3 decades. Any US administration can conveniently point to the TRA, and claim that its position is concrete, that its hands are tied, and that it must do exactly as discussed.

The ASL, it’s hoped, will do exactly the same thing for China.

[quote=“cctang”]Now you’re asking some good questions, shawn.

Yes, the Anti-Secession Law is a law. No, it’s not a “law of nature”. Yes, laws are only as important as the enforcement behind them. No, there’s no true independent universally applied system of international law.

In my mind, the ASL is meant to be the counter-balance to the US’s Taiwan Relations Act. Beijing took a page from Washington DC. The TRA has been a very useful device for the United States, allowing it to maintain its remarkable balance in the Taiwan straits for 3 decades. Any US administration can conveniently point to the TRA, and claim that its position is concrete, that its hands are tied, and that it must do exactly as discussed.

The ASL, it’s hoped, will do exactly the same thing for China.[/quote]

Except, of course, it breaks the status quo.

Good poll. :thumbsup:

Is this when you should click the Ignore link?

I agree. (Somebody start another poll - please.) Where is the law that permits that hypocrisy?

I thought Chen made a smooth move. He’s gotten back into his groove I think. He’s always been the most successful when he goes into lawyer mode and plays slippery with words and deeds. He won’t suffer any negative consequences for his move. The US has so much as said so, like, three times or so already.

I also think the flags at half-mast on 2/28 was brilliant. China can’t even comment on that. What are they gonna say? Our Great Founder’s arch-enemy is being unfairly slagged by that darn Chen Shui-bian? That stuff plays well with a lot of Taiwanese.

Here’s hoping the government has found a capable administrator in Su what’s-his-name, turfs that Transport minister out on her ass as soon as possible, and gets some momentum going for their cause which is so noble: Don’t let Taiwan become like China.

If the ASL is the counter balance the TRA, then either both must remain in place to sustain status quo, or both must be removed to sustain status quo.

Are TI supporters willing to show such bravado without the TRA? I think not.

Besides showing Taiwanese that they are ready for leadership that personifies stability and incorruptibility. Not to mention his legacy will be sorely tarnished for not being able to accomplish much.

That’s stupid. The TRA is decades old. It defined the “status quo”. The ASL was made last year (I think), after many, many warnings and threats from China about “maintaining the status quo”.

It’s just more Chinese hypocrisy to claim that Chen has changed the status quo and they haven’t.

F@ck the status quo.

From the above statement, it is crystal clear which side really hates the status quo and which other side has no need to change it. Hint for you: repeating “the ASL changes the status quo” may make you believe it, but does not make anybody else believe it.

From the above statement, it is crystal clear which side really hates the status quo and which other side has no need to change it. Hint for you: repeating “the ASL changes the status quo” may make you believe it, but does not make anybody else believe it.[/quote]

And here’s a visual analogy for you about the ASL and the so-called “status quo”.

If you feel that way about the status quo, you should seek immediate medical attention.

Actually the photo has an interesting interpretation. That 1 individual was able to hold back 4 tanks. And those 4 tanks were not willing to run over that 1 individual.

Says a lot about the PRC and what their limits are.

That’s the problem with a term as broadly ambiguous as “status quo”, of course. Everyone can have their own definition. Heck, Hu Jintao’s decision to comb his hair in a different direction could be considered a change in the status quo.

Let me tell you what the status quo really is: any circumstance which the governments in Taipei, Beijing, and Washington DC all find mutually acceptable.

THAT is the status quo. That’s what we’ve had for the past 25 years… political/economic/social relations across the strait acceptable to all. We’ll all know when the status quo has been changed when one party says to the others, “I find that unacceptable”.

Despite what Beijing claimed about Taiwan electing CSB into office… it was still considered “acceptable” to both the people and government of mainland China.

Despite what CSB claims about the ASL, obviously the Taiwanese people also find its passing to be “acceptable”… otherwise, surely you’d expect to have seen a little more outrage in the streets, eh? At least enough outrage so that the pan-Blues, who shook Hu’s hands in Beijing a month after the ASL’s passing, wouldn’t dominate so thoroughly in the following set of elections?

So, there you go. That’s the status quo.

You seem to be ignoring the 1 million person protest on March 26, 2005. How convenient. (not to mention the T.V. telethon that raised 1 million + USD in less than a few hours in support of that protest).

I think you’ll see the same outrage on March 19th this year as well.

1 million persons isn’t even all 10% TIer extremists. Why didin’t they all turn out? 5% of them must have liked the ASL… lol

:loco:

Actually the demostration took a lot of money from Taiwan’s Treasury. I assume TI couldn’t afford to invite all their supporters out. I mean their official count of the protest included people’s pets for goodness sakes. Last I check pets could not even vote on Taiwan. That’s how desperate TI supporters are in making their movement seem popular. Even their pets count more than Taiwanese that don’t support TI.

If I remember, that was the protest where people put their bras on poles and paraded around in “nude” shirts. Pure carnival.

Really?

I think you mean this: