Race and American Politics (split from Bush's iPod)


I do not understand why the school lunch program has anything to do with vouchers. My understanding is that schools that are “failing” are those that qualify for vouchers.

So you now have $6.26 million for 813 children. This works out to $7,700 per pupil AND you are not including any of the many private grants from the Ford Foundation, Microsoft, bilingual education grants, minority encouargement funds, etc. etc.

This is not how I understand it. My understanding is that not ALL but only part of the funding per pupil can be used, i.e. around one-third or $2,000. That means the schools have all that other money left. Second, you have given figures that add to $7,700 so even in the worst case scenario the school would still have $300 for not educating a child, AND if that child is gone, why would the school need that money in the first place. THAT is the figure that the school has said it needs to educate the child, no child and even if as you have claimed, which I dispute, that all the money would be available to go with the child so what? No child. No expense. Right? But my understanding is that the majority of funding is based on property tax receipts so why would this change if the student left. The school still gets most of its money this way.

Some one has been reading the talking points from the teachers unions. I love this. So low-income and low-education parents cannot make decisions for themselves and you are worried about the Patriot Act taking away someone’s rights?

Hurray. There it is. I love this. I know that this comes right out of the teachers union handbook. Think of what you are saying. If these low-income parents are not smart enough or rich enough to make decisions about their children’s education, then what makes you think that they can make any informed decisions about their lives. Ergo, they should have all decisions regarding where they live, how much they spend and on what and even how many children they have made by the State. Do you agree with that?

B.S. The fact remains that 70 percent of Black low income, low-educated parents support vouchers in inner city school districts. Please explain to me how so many diehard Democrat voters are suddenly supporting Republican Central.

So you are saying that good pupils should suffer along with the bad ones? Also, what makes you think that these children were not a challenge before? Suddenly, reducing the number of students albeit good ones makes the challenge of having these students that don’t care greater? Even though they were in the classes all along? This does not make sense.

Which in turn burdens the teacher with stress, because one his/her budget for resources has been cut, [/quote]

No it has not. In the best of circumstances that you have been able to raise, you have shown that regardless of how we tally this, the school is still getting a net plus regardless of whether the student stays or leaves and in my view, the school actually keeps 2/3rds of the funding. The student only gets one-third to take. The school still gets all the private sector foundation funding.

moral is low because of what he/she has to face in the classroom,[/quote]
again, b.S. the morale was low to begin with. The morale factor has not changed one iota since the same bad or difficult or challenging students are there. That has not changed. Why were they not a morale problem before? The schools after all that qualify for vouchers are in fact “failing” so how can morale be good in the first place?

Sorry this is not administration pressure. Either you pass or you do not pass but if you cannot do the simple math or language skills that are required, should you pass? or fail? allowing you to pass benefits you exactly how? makes you feel good about yourself?

What win? The school is already failing. Get that? That is when vouchers are allowed. The school is FAILING. Then if the school is failing what are the teachers going to do about it?

This is ridiculous. The schools that parents have their children in are already failing and you are saying if the school they choose is not available that giving them the choice in the first place is suddenly wrong. How does that make sense?

Why is that when according to your own figures the schools are getting $7700 per pupil NOT including foundation and grant money? Compare this with private schools, especially parochial ones and ask yourself where all that money is going.

YOu have that right. Why is it that Latino schools must have Latino principals and Blacks must have Blacks? I completely disagree. The schools should get the best administrators. That they do not is more about Democrat race-based policies. This would be much less likely to happen under a Republican.

See my points above.

I do not think that you have made a case for not supporting vouchers and question whether you understand them. Go back and read that site. You did not spend more than five minutes.

So then I sense that you agree with Republican initiated welfare reform but that has nothing to do with vouchers. You are giving parents a choice. Why is that so wrong? At worst, they ignore their children’s situation and leave them in the school that is already failing. It is not like the situation of the failing school is going to get any worse. BUT you could give the chance to those who care to get out of it.

I agree with all those statements. So why are you voting Democrat then?

Fine. Depending on how this is done, I would consider signing on.

That’s what vouchers are trying to do. When a school is failing, what do you suggest? We have tried to implement accountability with little success. Very hard to fire teachers. Why? AND if the teachers and schools are failing, explain to me how it is fair to expect the children there to stay. Removing them is the only way to reforming. When there are no pupils, then the school will ultimately pay the price for its failed policies.

This is exaggerated. What? Getting students to be able to prove that they have mastered basic math and language skills is prepping them for tests? If they could not pass these tests before, the question must become why not. If you cannot handle basic math and language then what chance do you have of geting into a good college or university?


Why? The schools already have enough money. Why should they get more? I think we need to be asking why public schools get as much money as elite private schools and do so pisspoorly with the funding they get. How’s that for a question?


The US spends $500 billion on K-12 education every year and we spend more in total and per capita than any other nation in the world.

42.7 percent is from LOCAL funding.
49 percent from state
8.4 percent federal

That works out to $8,019 per pupil on average with DC at $13,328 per pupil. This does not include foundation and grant funding.

Private elementary schools spend $3,500 per pupil and $6,052 on average for secondary.

Teachers make on average $45,822 which is more on an hourly basis than accountants, engineers, computer programmers and architects.



Why do you keep insinuating that I vote Democrat? I haven’t discussed my political affilations here in this thread nor can I recall making suggestions of what party I have voted for.
Just because I hold a certain view point doesn’t necessarly mean that they should be labeled or related to certain political parties.


I don’t really care who you vote for but you have all the lingo down of someone who votes Democrat. Clear it up then. What are your political affiliations? Don’t see why this has to be such a big mystery.


I have all the lingo of my own views. My political affiliations are for the candidate that would serve me the best. The last presidental election it would have been Bush. As for Illinois elections, I have to vote Democrat in primary but allowed to vote for whom I choose for in the final. Last election I would have voted in, I would have choosen candidates from both parties.

Does that satisfy you? :wink:


Did you actually vote for Bush in the last election? The very thought gives me renewed enthusiasm about winning you over to the voucher cause. Picture Fred salivating while rubbing his hands in a ghoulish fashion. boohahahahahahwwaaaa waaaaa


Nope because I was too lazy to get my absentee ballot in. Sorry, but you can still salivate. :smiley:


In the Milwaukee public school system up to $5,106 was available per pupil per voucher. That is UP to and the total amount of funding per student was nearly $10,000 so that means around half or less for vouchers.

In Ohio, it was up to $2,250 for similar amounts in urban areas. (Here the reference is to Cleveland).

Finally, in Florida, the amount was $4,000 with total per pupil spending near the average of $8,000.

So clearly, a lot of the money is still staying with the school regardless of the students choice to leave.


[quote]Many other nations have choice, voucher, subsidy, or aid programs that
involve private and religious schools. Australia subsidizes private schools based on enrollment and need. The Netherlands has long funded private schools on an equal basis with public schools. Several other European nations


Following conclusions are from the liberal Brookings Institute…

privateschool.about.com/gi/dynam … 2Fpb35.htm

[quote]The proposal that generates the most passionate support and the most passionate opposition is vouchers. Over the years, voucher proposals have won the allegiance of free-market enthusiasts, but have been bitterly opposed by public employee unions and others who prefer the current system of public education run exclusively by government agencies.

Perhaps because of despair over the dire condition of urban schools, public opinion is shifting toward support of vouchers. According to a Gallup Poll, 74 percent of the public was opposed to vouchers in 1993; by 1997, opposition had dropped to 52 percent. The highest level of support for vouchers was found among blacks (72 percent), 18-to-29-year-olds (70 percent), and urban residents (59 percent). In a poll by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, vouchers received the endorsement of 57 percent of blacks, and 86 percent of blacks between 36 and 50. The greatest support (70 percent) came from blacks with the lowest income (under $15,000). [/quote]


Another reason why reform of the public school system is needed AND yet another indicator that poverty in America is often over-reported all because of financial factors… Read on. This not unusual.

[quote]The principal of one of the city’s most respected public high schools has been ousted for urging parents to lie in order to milk the National School Lunch Program for extra cash. Maurice Collins, the principal of A. Philip Randolph HS in Harlem, also threatened to withhold transportation for children whose parents didn’t turn in their school-lunch applications. The food firestorm started when Collins sent parents a letter urging them to[b] lie about their wealth on the lunch applications


I just do not know what to think about this. :thinking:so looking forward to being in California tomorrow. If I don’t return , I may have made an inappropriate remark or gone into the wrong toilets or smoked in public or said I agree with a few of Trump policies or …:disappointed_relieved:


An interesting article making the rounds.


Read that one yesterday. Very well-written.


Writer is an undergrad philosophy major, pretty impressive.


Don’t worry. Your British accent will give you a free pass. The women even think it’s sexy for some reason. But seriously though, don’t wear a MAGA hat…that will get you killed.


America has made HUGE progress on racism…also what/who are we comparing to?
The world was a diff place in 1800-1910s most other nations in the world had slavery. Many European/Asian countries abolished slavery within 1-2 decades of the US, it was a world wide thing not an American only thing.
I’d say the US is one of the least racist countries in the world.

A key indicator of how accepting a country is, is the number of minorities/immigrants that country allows in places of great power and influence in all levels of that countries government, legal system and largest companies. Also how accepting the country is of legal immigrants. If you want to compare the past then you must compare the past of the US against other countries stance on racism during the same period of time.


Dream on.


You gotta be kidding, which country do you want to compare. Lets talk facts and compare a seperate country against the US within the same time frame/decade.

Black president twice. Taiwanese in Presidential cabinet. You have chinese, vietnamese mayors, Asian police chiefs, An Indian who was governor of a Southern State (Louisiana). Our biggest companies are run by minorities. Probably the highest level of minorities in any country holdig offices in Government at ALL levels and big businesses. Lots of minorities in Congress and Judicial system. You even have parts of our government encouraging illegal aliens to vote. Is that going to happen in Taiwan, Canada, Australia, Japan, the UK, EU, India, Korea, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Malaysia, PRC, New Zealand, Russia, Brazil, Argentina, Indonesia?

Which country do you want to compare about racism?

In LA I can open a gas, electric, water service in about 8 different languages and actually have people speak in those languages for help or hit up an ATM in Chinese, Korean, Spanish, Russian, Armenian, Japanese, Vietnamnese.


Imprisoned in the US -> got almost 8 million $ in Canada as compensation

US is racist: confirmed


Oh you wanna do that and ignore everything else I said LOL what a weak argument an article dealing more with Foriegn policy of War Criminals/ POWs. I know lots of Canadians that are racist as hell too that dont like Asians the only difference is the red necks in Canada don’t get played on TV 24/7 for the world nonstop.

Every country has lots of racist people but the world doesnt get exposed to them 24/7 on the News… Imagine if Taiwan, China or Korea gets shown its racist people nonstop on BBC, CNN, and multiple news outlets everyday.

I have Asians friends in Cananda and they tell me theres lots of Racists in there, maybe its just currently not talked about on the News.

Lets talk when Canada actually elects a minority Race Prime Minister

Btw just curious, does Canada give Drivers licenses, free health care, encourage voting rights, legal representation, social services to its Illegal Aliens?