Racism in TW?

[quote=“azkaban”]What crap! I am indian and me and my wife have had a great time here. people are extraordinarily friendly and helpful and my wife loves it here. shes even had people hug her in shops although maybe thats because she has just spent a huge amount there…

also somebody said theres racism everywhere. more crap. get a life! probably you look ugly which is why people dont treat you well but thats more due to your looks rather than anything else. or more likely you dont have much money in which case of course dont expect anything better.[/quote]

I looked in the mirror today, and realised how ugly I actually was. Thanks for the tip. If only I was as rich as your wife, then I could get plastic surgery.

There is racism wherever there are people. People seem to be talking about racism in this thread, if you don’t want to talk about it, how about you create a new thread called the “my wife is a princess and I’m living in a dreamworld so go away” thread. Oh, and don’t forget to create a new alias because it’s better to be anonymous when you know you’re a dickhead.

People have the right to be racist, just as they have the right to be assholes or idiots. The point is that they can’t be allowed to act on their racism. Acting on racism violates the rights of others. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.

[quote=“gao_bo_han”]
I’ve seen thinking of this ilk all over this forum, and basically I agree with it. There’s lot of things everywhere, like air pollution. Taipei has air pollution, so does Austin, and so does the cleanest mountain village in Tibet. They just have different levels of pollution. I can’t speak for many countries, as I’ve only lived in two: the US and Taiwan. I would like to venture that racism is more prevalent in Taiwan than it is in the US. (That’s the most inflammatory thing I’ve said here yet, prepares for the hailstorm).

Yes, there are plenty of racist little towns in the US that look askance at anyone not white, as there are everywhere, blah blah blah. But I venture that the locals in Taipei are more racist than the locals in Austin. Do I have scientific evidence to back this up? Not really. I could argue that the civil rights movement, affirmative action, feasible nationalization and permanent residency represent some kind of scientific proof of America’s public and legal acceptance of other peoples. But I’d rather argue as a “native” of Austin, a local (though I no longer live there). First off, it was never popular when I was growing up to usual racial slurs, or to stereotype people from other races. On the contrary, it was widely discouraged, and our teachers taught us to respect people of all races and cultures, and making fun of students because of their nationality or skin color met with swift and immediate punishment. When was the last time you heard a Congressman talk about deporting all foreigners, or dribbling racial slurs from the podium? Racism is no longer popularly accepted in America. Present, yes. Popular, no.

Now how about Taipei? How much more common is it to hear Taiwanese people insulting, making fun, or in general belittling foreigners, even right in front of you? Ever been called a hairy ape? Ever been talked to like a little child? Ever find yourself refuting idiotic stereotypes, and doing so on a daily basis Now, how about the last time you saw a child punished for pointing at you and saying “waiguoren, waiguoren!”. Or the last time anyone (child or no) was reproached for saying “heigui”, or for spouting some racist sludge. In my experience, it is more likely to see head-nodding than reproachment.

I think what I’m getting at here is that while racism is everywhere, it isn’t present in the same volumes everywhere. And yes, it’s worse in Taiwan than the US (and I imagine this goes for other Western countries as well, where racism is no longer fashionable).[/quote]

Good points.

I’d say Taiwan is more overtly racist than the US, but the racism here is not nearly as vicious as some forms of racism in the US (e.g. the dragging death of James Byrd, the existence of the KKK and other white supremacist groups, etc.). I haven’t encountered any “Chinese supremacist” groups dragging whites or Southeast Asians to death, or burning Dharma Wheels in front of people’s houses. When a bunch of Chinese yell “adogah” to a lone white person here, it’s likely a less frightening situation than it would be to a lone black person being called the “n” word by a bunch of whites in the US, all else being equal.

Of course, Austin (outside the statehouse, that is) is a pretty liberal city, so it’s natural that there would be less racism in Austin than in other parts of the US.

All i am saying is that people should have the right of 1) freedom of expression and 2) control of ones own property. these rights trump all other rights.

Therefore, if as a westerner or a chinese you dont want to have an indian in your shop or talking to you you should be free to express that right. And vice versa. Of course ideally we should all get along, but at the end of the day isnt it only natural to prefer one’s own race and culture ? we should interact for trade and business yes but expecting us to integrate with each other is too much. and isnt it a bit idealistic to behave as if we’re all brothers or whatever the latest PC phrase is. fac t is we are all very very different.

[quote=“Chris”][When a bunch of Chinese yell “adogah” to a lone white person here, it’s likely a less frightening situation than it would be to a lone black person being called the “n” word by a bunch of whites in the US, all else being equal.

[/quote]

Don’t be so PC. As is much more often the case, at least from my personal experience growing up in an area that was roughly 50/50 black and white, it’s the other way around. You try walking around in all-black neighborhood in the states sometime - even in broad daylight.

The main reason why there isn’t as much violence in Taiwan as there is back home, I think comes down to sheer numbers. Exactly how many non-Asians are there on this island? 1% of 1%? Incidents like the Pig & Whistle in Hsinchu earlier this year show that Taiwanese aren’t totally averse to anti-foreigner violence. The percentage of violent racist incidents in Taiwan, I would wager, is roughly the same as back home, when you take the population percentages into account.

[quote=“azkaban”]All I am saying is that people should have the right of 1) freedom of expression and 2) control of ones own property. these rights trump all other rights.

Therefore, if as a westerner or a Chinese you dont want to have an indian in your shop or talking to you you should be free to express that right. And vice versa. Of course ideally we should all get along, but at the end of the day isnt it only natural to prefer one’s own race and culture ? we should interact for trade and business yes but expecting us to integrate with each other is too much. and isnt it a bit idealistic to behave as if we’re all brothers or whatever the latest PC phrase is. fac t is we are all very very different.[/quote]

I’m sorry that you have such a pessimistic view of human potential.

Mustn’t forget Sen. Robert Byrd, D-KKK, er, I mean, D-WV.

[quote=“azkaban”]

Therefore, if as a westerner or a Chinese you dont want to have an indian in your shop or talking to you you should be free to express that right. And vice versa. Of course ideally we should all get along, but at the end of the day isnt it only natural to prefer one’s own race and culture ? we should interact for trade and business yes but expecting us to integrate with each other is too much. and isnt it a bit idealistic to behave as if we’re all brothers or whatever the latest PC phrase is. fac t is we are all very very different.[/quote]

What about people who actually don’t identify with any race? What about people who grew up thinking race was irrelevant and passe?

Yes most people prefer their own race or culture but I believe that’s because they have so much time on their hands that they have nothing else to do except look in the mirror and at their family and think how wonderful it is that they all have similar features. That’s all race is.

It’s not too much to expect people from different races to integrate. Noone’s expecting anyone to integrate, but if you do integrate and don’t discriminate by race then you are a better person for it. And if good manners and being a good person are some of your cultural values then you are still holding onto your culture and integrating at the same time.

Expecting people from different cultures and languages to integrate is what is challenging.

Freedom of expression is all lovely but is it not more civilized to be nice to everyone? If you are from a culture that believes it is especially more “civilised” than other cultures, shouldn’t you try to prove it, by doing so? If you don’t want an Indian or a Chinese or a foreigner coming into your shop, then tough titties, you better move your shop, because the world is a different place now, and if you don’t like it, go and join the One Nation party.

Really? I am afraid the world outside your front door is a little different from what you imagine. …
hri.ca/racism/Submitted/Theme/castenew.shtml
un.org/WCAR/e-kit/migration.htm
asylumsupport.info/links/discrimination.htm

[quote=“mod lang”][quote=“Chris”][When a bunch of Chinese yell “adogah” to a lone white person here, it’s likely a less frightening situation than it would be to a lone black person being called the “n” word by a bunch of whites in the US, all else being equal.
[/quote]

Don’t be so PC. As is much more often the case, at least from my personal experience growing up in an area that was roughly 50/50 black and white, it’s the other way around. You try walking around in all-black neighborhood in the states sometime - even in broad daylight.
[/quote]

What’s so PC about all that? It’s true, and I have been iin that situation more than I would like to remember. And the funny thing is, some of those incidents occured in neighborhoods where it was suppose to be progressive:noway: As for whites walking around an all-black neighborhood even in broad daylight, that’s nasty little myths that have been passed down creaping in, you know the one’s some grew up on , believing that blacks were hostile creatures naturally prone to violence. :unamused: Racism takes on many forms, from the trival questions "Oh you must be a good dancer " to the James Byrd incident. Sure we could have free expression, but if we are to have that, are we really going to allow[b] all [/b]expression.

Just speaking from my experience, same as you are speaking from yours. It’s not a “myth”, that’s just the way it is - in America, being the wrong color in the wrong place can get you into trouble. And I hate to bring this up, but the crime statistics back me up on this: black-on-white violent crimes occur much more often than white-on-black violent crimes. (The biggest amount of violence isn’t racially related at all, of course, being mostly either black-on-black or white-on-white violence)

Mod,

it is a ‘myth’ that is creative used to keep the lines drawn. To keep certain images in grained and passed down. If you want to say that more black on white crime is higher, then believe you me, it ain’t because whites are going into the black neighborhoods. I absolutely hate such small minded thinking, especially backed up with all that ‘proven statistical’ shit. :fume: :fume: Next time you use it have the statistics

I have a freind here who is from Tonga. Her husband is a Kiwi. She often gets asked direction in Chinese as the locals assume she’s a local aboriginal lass.

However her oldest son is bone white, and she’s often asked whose child it is… She gets quite a few laughs out of it.

Some of the locals here like to shout bad things to foreigners, but actually you could hang out with the same idiots at the local pub with them and have a great time too…

They’re just being hoods as they blast past. My wife is always asked why she’s not dark, being an aboriginal. Well a lot of them are pretty white.

Seeing as I work out in the sun I get a good tan in the summer. It’s always amusing to hear the Chinese call me a white guy when my skin colour is ten times darker than theirs.

What it rascism? I’m not ostracised cause I’ma foreigner living here. I get called the odd name baut who hasnt grown up talking about spics wops dagos Ities chinks nips and gooks. These were the commonly used words around when I was a kid. I went to a schools of mixed nationalities and eveybody called their friends derogatory names in their own language.

Having a German name I got called all sorts of names, from Juden Slayer to Herr Kraut. I guess we all have to carry some historical baggage when we’re young. All nationalities practise their own forms of racism. Just try dating a Turkish girl or a Greek girl in Australia, being a non believer and a different race led to difficulties dating the local foreign hot chicks.

Even the Spanish were likely to lock up there daughters in case some Aussie lad came around to visit. Damn, multiculturalism works. Even today in Australia many Chinese and Taiwanese families forbid their children to have non same race relationships.

All I can say, being a white South frican, is that I was HORRIFIED by the amount of anti-black sentiment reigning here (Taiwan, I mean).

WHAT THE HELL???

I certainly didn’t. Goes to show. The word "Englishman’ was much. much, more reviled than the word Kaffir, at leat in my home. And don’t come with your “it was the law” bullshit with me.
It’s still (or hasn’t been0 in your lawbooks.
BUT who will YOU invite for dinner?
I’ll invite anybody but you.

You get it everywhere. I once had a friend who was Canadian, and not white enough, and he couldn’t find any jobs. I blamed it on his sloppy clothing during interviews.

I agree that it isn’t about hatred, but just ignorance. I have been here for more than 2 years, and I feel a tingle inside me when I see another color.(for a change)

Everyone here looks the same…black hair, black eyes. When I see an asian with bleached hair I get the same tingle. It’s just because it catches the eye. If you have a strong indian accent, you may get problems because they prefer American accents here (even though there are so many different American accents) I am white and had to change my accent to teach at a certain school.

People who complain about racism often forget that a lot of foreigners are pretty racist regarding Asians. You should read some of these posts!

I certainly didn’t. Goes to show. The word "Englishman’ was much. much, more reviled than the word Kaffir, at leat in my home. And don’t come with your “it was the law” bullshit with me.
It’s still (or hasn’t been0 in your lawbooks.
BUT who will YOU invite for dinner?
I’ll invite anybody but you.[/quote]

So, instead of the name-calling common amongst Australian children, in your house you practiced the name-calling common to your country! And, somehow you think this makes a moral difference.

If the words Englishman and Kaffir were reviled in your house then that means you did the same thing. You used name-calling to insult others. You just used different names.

Cheers

[quote
You used name-calling to insult others. You just used different names.
Cheers[/quote]

I said I only called my friends that, and vice versa, not people we didn’t associate with. Damn, it’s a form of affection.

I guess you’ve never insulted anybody… bollocks

One of the problem for foreigners adjusting to Taiwan is that in our home countries now, this kind of name-calling is frowned upon. In my hometown, a child pointing at someone who is “different” and saying something derogatory will ordinarily be told to shut up by his parents; not so here, as any foreigner can attest. Being the victim of the kind of behavior that we would punish our own children for is disconcerting.

Does it really mean that the Taiwanese are more racist than people in Western countries, though? I’m not convinced. I certainly did not grow up using words like those listed above - my parents would have killed me. This kind of obvious prejudice just wasn’t allowed at my house. Imagine my surprise then, when last Christmas I asked my mom if I could bring my (non-white) boyfriend home for the holidays. My parents refused; I can assure you that my sisters’ boyfriends (all white) were always welcome. Hypocrisy rules.
I am too old for this kind of disillusionment.

Yes, I often found that many people on the outside are politically correct, but when push comes to shove they show you there true nature.

Some people would never use such filthy racist language… yet should you want to bring a non white partner home, oops no go. Time to ditch the parents honey…

It’s not only kids who point, I’ve seen adoloescents and adults do it too.

Hypocrites are everywhere. And there are the do goodies and the I am holier than thou sanctimonious christians, and the I shalt not say bad words but practice rasicm if I can not be seen doing it. Too much politcally correctness, have to be seen doing the right thing and saying the right words.

I used the words steers and queers in a post and moaman says it’s not good… queer standing for strange weird etc but he took it to mean gays…

When I used the word niggardly another forum member railed against me using the N word… only it means miserly… I guess we just all grow up with words that have different meaning in different cultures.

I’m not racist, I hate everybody equally.

Except of course my Aboriginal wife, and my son, another non white in my family lol.