Racism in US politics

Politics International Politics
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[quote=“Tigerman”]

Anyway, how about this stuff:

“The Imam (in translation)”]Those Germans, those atheists, they don’t shave their armpits. Their sweat spreads evil smells. They stink. They are atheists. What good do they do to us? And since they are unbelievers, in the afterlife, they can only burn in hell.[/quote]

After checking my armpit, let me say a shocked “Bush go go go!”.

Didn’t think it is so bad. Guess that’s it with the “multiculturals society” the left wanted to establish in Germany. Honestly this concept was always strange to me. It was never properly defined, though. But I mean, when I move to a different country of course the culture there will be the leading one. I can have my private sub culture within the country culture with my family and friends, but … it can never the as important as the main culture in the foreign country where I live.

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How cute SB Moor wants to attempt an argument.

First of all, I went to the American University in Cairo and I have repeatedly visit the Middle East. I have been to every country in the region except for Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Somalia.

Second, interesting that you would think that I have had no conversations with Muslims and Arabs. I do all the time. That is why I do not live in fear of them. People are people. Belief systems however can be wrong and Islamofascism is wrong.

Third, you are equating my arguments to a series of generalizations and then you bring up saving face in East Asia. Don’t you see the hilarity of that little zinger? haha

Fourth, I have been quoted in Arab language publications about my views and have received positive feedback. Just last year, I was quoted in al Watan in Oman. We need to get our views into the Arab language press a lot more. That is not happening right now. If people do not know how someone else truly feels than how will they know when they are going too far.

The BBC by the way interviewed many people in many Arab nations about who they wanted to win Kerry or Bush? 25% of the respondents were from Iraq and it was almost unanimous: all of them wanted Bush to win. Now, what is it you were saying about asking the Arabs and Muslims for their opinions?

Nevermind, SB Moor, it is difficult for people to give up their ingrained belief systems and like you many others will have to soon discard multiculturalism as a mistake. Whether you like it or not, the system is going and good riddance. Couldn’t leave fast enough for me. Now, that Europe is waking up to the dangers of multi culti bullshit, they will refind their Western values and America and Europe will draw closer. And lest you think this is racist, let me point out that today, Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Korea and Japan also count as “Western” as do many countries in Latin America.

It is time for us in the West to say we uphold and believe in our values and that we will not tolerate their being watered down to fit some ridiculous vision of a multi culti world where everyone and everything is a moral equivalent. I am glad Europe is waking up to the reality that democracy, human rights and freedom are worth upholding and that nothing can be compromised in this area. Hurray!

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:wink: Guess I’ve upset some rednecks. Anyway, Stalin, if the ‘average Arab’ is an ignorant idiot… well, interesting prejudice you have. Where would that not apply? And so their opinion doesn’t count? Then why do people poll Republicans?
Fred, yes, you beat me there. Multiculturalism is a terrible idea. We also need to reenact miscegenation laws so races don’t mix, and we need to herd those damn ‘Spanish’ immigrants into ghettoes so they don’t ruin our language. Wow, Fred, that statement really tells it all… I fear for the future of our country. Seriously. :noway:
The world coming closer together? Not if Fred has a vote on it.
Do the rest of you agree with the idiot?

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Fred,

You wrote:Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Korea and Japan also count as “Western” as do many countries in Latin America.

Disagree with you on this one. During the Cold War, Singapore was the

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It does not take much to beat you SBMoor though that is hardly the thrill of my day.

I agree 100 percent.

If I have said that Japan, Taiwan, Korea et al are now part of the West how does it follow that I am against races mixing? Where has anyone said what you are implying? AND let’s be real here. The only truly interracial marriages that are widely accepted by their socities are occuring in the WEST. Would you like to rethink this again?

Histrionics and hysteria. Who said this? Why is language a factor? But would you rather have Western rule-based socities or corrupt nepotistic militaristic Latin American varieties? Really, there is a difference. That is why there are 20 million Mexicans living in the US and only tourists from the US in Mexico. See, there are differences between systems and the American system is better. If you disagree you are always free to leave though whether Mexico or any of these other countries would accept you is open to debate. Not every country accepts immigrants like we do in the West. Oh darn. There’s another good point about our society and values. So stop trying to make this a “racial” issue. Are you saying Black Americans are not truly Western? Now, that is truly racist. Are you saying Asian and Latins in America are not capable of inculcating the values of democracy, respect for human rights and a rule based society because of their race? Really, who is the racist here? Or explain to me how your statement does not logically presuppose the very proposition that I have put forward.

I fear for our country when someone has been educated in the US at our public schools and is so completely incapable of logically constructing an argument and for using hyperbole and straw men to shriek down a dissenting argument because they have no factual capability to do so.

[quote]The world coming closer together? Not if Fred has a vote on it.
Do the rest of you agree with the idiot?[/quote]

Fred is on record as urging democracy and respect for human rights for the WHOLE world and not just Western nations. Fred Smith supports bringing democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq. Would anyone argue that the governments in place in both nations today are somehow worse than what came before? Or would you say that they are in fact much better?

So nice try SBMoor, but for those that can read, they understand my argument. Multiculturalism is not about race though I can see how you would be desperate to portray it as such. Fighting against multiculturalism is not about race either. Fighting multiculturalism is about saying we have a set of values that are morally superior to those that exist elsewhere. It is not saying we should reject ethnic food, ethnic music, ethnic cultures and customs but to pretend that Burma or Saudi Arabia or Zaire or Colombia have a system of government or a constitution superior to that of the US will only open you to the kind of ridicule that has finally come to be thrown at the multi culti crowd in America. We all love Tibetan prayer beads and it’s really cool to have a Peruvian wish bracelet but we may not wish our children to be educated in Tibet or Nepal or Peru and for those of us who do, guess what? we have the freedom to do so. Nuff said.

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Looks more like we should be talking about you. Here is what Stalin posted:

He stated that the average Arab is uneducated (i.e., ignorant). He did not state that the average Arab is an idiot. Do you not know the difference between “ignorant” and “idiot”? Hmmm.

[quote=“sbmoor262004”] Fred, yes, you beat me there. Multiculturalism is a terrible idea. We also need to reenact miscegenation laws so races don’t mix, and we need to herd those damn ‘Spanish’ immigrants into ghettoes so they don’t ruin our language. Wow, Fred, that statement really tells it all… I fear for the future of our country.

The world coming closer together? Not if Fred has a vote on it.
Do the rest of you agree with the idiot?[/quote]

You obviously have difficulty with reading comprehension.

Fred has never stated that people of different cultures should be kept separate or that some are better than others. What he has stated is that moral equivelence is idiotic.

Perhaps your arguments are so weak, or perhaps Fred’s arguments are too difficult for you to refute… but, in any event, you consistently raise straw men.

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:bravo: Glad I angered the Repub circle jerk, but seriously…
So, Fred, you think that Mexicans come to the US because of the inherent superiority of the ‘West,’ which seems such a vague concept the way you use it really has no validity. Basically you are creating a dichotomy between West and non-West, with no dictatorships in the ‘West.’ Interesting but flawed idea. Immigrants have moved on a massive scale into several Latin American countries in the past. Immigration is about money, the reason YOU are here in Taiwan, n’est-ce pas?
Since you felt hurt about my contempt for your monoculturalist attitudes (and quite ethnocentric), why don’t you spell out exactly what that means to you? I apologize for exaggerating my insults a little; I really didn’t think you would take everything seriously but then that’s most Republicans for you. :notworthy: Anyway, how does your ‘West’ and ‘non-West’ argument work other than as a typical ‘First World’ vs. ‘Third World’ system scenario? Please spew some more… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thanks for sharing your true feelings. :upyours:

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Sorry Laddie…your onanism is not applicable here. And attributing your sexual proclivities to a polical party is sadly laughable.

[quote=“sbmoor262004”]So, Fred, you think that Mexicans come to the US because of the inherent superiority of the ‘West,’ which seems such a vague concept the way you use it really has no validity. Basically you are creating a dichotomy between West and non-West, with no dictatorships in the ‘West.’ Interesting but flawed idea. Immigrants have moved on a massive scale into several Latin American countries in the past. Immigration is about money, the reason YOU are here in Taiwan, n’est-ce pas?[/quote] Again a sadly laughable comment. Is this based in your personal limited view or something you swallowed with out question at the local university brain-washing?

sbmoor…with every post your are becoming more and more a tired cliche’. Mindless repetition of poli sci 201 is more revealing of your lack of cultural observational ability than you might want to know.
Never the less…keep going. You present an interesting example in how a little education can be a dangerous thing. :bravo:

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Chile is Latin but I would also argue Western.
Japan is Asian but I would argue it is now Western.

Where in the West do you find dictatorships?

Mexicans are moving to the US because of our system delivers higher standards of living and better quality of life. That does not mean that they do not love Mexico, their culture, their customs but they recognize that they have more opportunities in the US than Mexico.

Mexico has severe problems with corruption, economic inefficiency and ingrained inequality. That is not to say that the US is perfect but when people vote with their feet to choose among the various systems, we are really only seeing the feet going one way and that is to the US.

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Fred you squirm and twist so much, it’s a wonder you haven’t completed a transformation and taken flight.

It was an eye opener to read that despite making assertions that Muslims/Islam has contributed nothing of value to the world over the last thousand years (strike up the hateful, curmudgeon chorus of Tainan Cowbay and Mapo here…) you’re actually not being racist because you are only asking that they be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else.

It’s refreshing to know that the person who starts threads called “Treacherous French” really just has it in for Chirac and the government.

I also am very moved by your recent outrage over Condi being given large lips (gasp!) in a political cartoon. I had no idea you were so sympathetic to black people, to say nothing of those poor Israelis who, with – what? – 2.3 billion dollars of annual support from America, in a country arbitrarily created in 1948 by your favourite gang the UN – sure must find it hard dealing with some of the rather inconvenient parallels between the treatment of Palestinians there, and the treatment of Jews in WWII.

Fred, does your love of corporate America and a globalized, lopsided economy/power structure know no bounds? You’re an inspiration to all, or at least to the 3 odd posters on here who share your worldview.

Go butterfly, flit and flit some more.

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Cowboy, it is a fact that there was a great deal of migration to Latin America in the past decade and it continues to this day, obviously not to the degree that people come to the US. As Fred notes it is the money and standard of living that entices most people to emigrate nowadays, not because one system is inherently better. If the dollar continues to slide and the US economy stagnates you will undoubtedly find many Americans emigrating to other countries.
Cowboy, you obviously feel threatened. Your feelings of intellectual inferiority are justified. Politics wasn’t my focus in college (I have an MA in TESOL); I’ve spent more years studying foreign languages and cultures, which might account for a desire to have a cosmopolitan view of humanity as opposed to a simply ‘American’ or ‘French’ or other nationalistic way of understanding the world and its dynamics. Your failed efforts to come across as educated, however, are betrayed by an inability to use anything other than jingoistic, poorly supported claims that are based on trailer-park ‘common sense.’ Your outrage at most of the world’s contempt for Bush is rooted in your paranoid view of reality, which is a ‘US vs. the world’ mentality. If you would try and understand why people dislike Bush you might be able to state something rational rather than sophomoric put-downs.
But, if this reality hurts too much you can rely on experts like Rush Limbaugh to support you and come to your defense.

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Cowboy, you obviously feel threatened. Your feelings of intellectual inferiority are justified.[/quote]Huh? should I pay my .02 NT now or at the end of the session?[quote=“sbmoor262004”] Politics wasn’t my focus in college (I have an MA in TESOL);[/quote] Congratulations. Languages have fascinated me since childhood. I sincerely applaud one who is multi-lingual.[quote=“sbmoor262004”] I’ve spent more years studying foreign languages and cultures, which might account for a desire to have a cosmopolitan view of humanity as opposed to a simply ‘American’ or ‘French’ or other nationalistic way of understanding the world and its dynamics.[/quote]Hear that sound? Its the sound of one hand clapping.[quote=“sbmoor262004”] Your failed efforts to come across as educated, however, are betrayed by an inability to use anything other than jingoistic, poorly supported claims that are based on trailer-park ‘common sense.’[/quote]Ahhh yes…the old ‘cosmopolitan trailer park crack. Tut tut…got me there ol’ boy![quote=“sbmoor262004”] Your outrage at most of the world’s contempt for Bush is rooted in your paranoid view of reality, which is a ‘US vs. the world’ mentality. If you would try and understand why people dislike Bush you might be able to state something rational rather than sophomoric put-downs.[/quote] OK…NOW do I pay my 0.02 NT?[quote=“sbmoor262004”]
But, if this reality hurts too much you can rely on experts like Rush Limbaugh to support you and come to your defense.[/quote]
Nice how you managed to work ‘trailer parks’ AND Rush Limbaugh in. You really are a Master of Cliche’s!

So…you really have nothing to say of any consequence?

Oh great one…have an ounce of pity on those of us unworthy of the sobriquet ‘elitest cosmopolitan.’
And again, do try to see the world thru other than talking points and cliche’s.
And your pitiful attempts pyschoanalysis are laughable. Thanks for the enjoyment.

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[quote=“rooftop”]
It was an eye opener to read that despite making assertions that Muslims/Islam has contributed nothing of value to the world over the last thousand years (strike up the hateful, curmudgeon chorus of Tainan Cowbay and Mapo here…) you’re actually not being racist because you are only asking that they be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else.[/quote]
Mr. rooftop,
I am completely able to be criticized on my own. Also, it is well known that I am NOT a “hateful” person. Hard headed and opinionated…yes indeed. I am old enough to recognize that good, evil, intelligence and stupid exist in this world. And I am not afraid to point my finger at them when I see them.

Also…I don’t expect to reach curmudgeon stauts for 15 years or so.

But thanks for thinking of me. And I am flattered to be included among the intellects of Mr. MPD and Herr Fred.

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Ok, Ok.

I’ll admit that you always seemed like the nicest Supreme to me.

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Rooftop:

Find all the quotes where I have not referred specifically to government policies of France. Traveller used to berate me all the time for using German or French in my writings but it is so obvious that we are talking about national policies here that I cannot believe that this is really an issue. Then, why are you not also equally outraged when blanket statements about “Americans” are made?

Second, if there are so many major accomplishments from Arab and Muslim culture then surely you could rattle off that list right here and right now. Let’s say the top 50 contributions? Why not just put them down right here and right now since there are so many.

Also, do let us know when and where and how the Muslim world was tolerant during the Middle Ages. I would love to hear this.

I am not saying NO contributions but I am ASKING what those major and important contributions are. Please fill me in.

Third, I find your outrage agaisnt prejudice and discrimination somewhat lopsided. You find that it is acceptable to caricature Condi Rice in the worst sort of way but cannot find one statement where I have ever said anything racist against Blacks. So you are inferring that I am a racist for supporing Condi Rice who is black and that makes sense how exactly?

Fourth, I find it interesting that those of us who have been to the Middle East are able to discuss this topic with a fair amount of logic and reasoning while you just attack anyone for supposed racist statements or inflammatory statements against Arabs and Islam. Do you know any Arabs or Muslims? Have you ever been to the Middle East? Have you ever even studied it? Do you have any idea about the present political and economic as well as social and cultural factors that are present there? I doubt it very much. I do.

Fifth, you keep setting up these strawmen and no one is buying it.

For the record, I am not against France or the French, I am against the policies of Jacques Chirac and Dominique de Villepin.

I am not against Islam per se, but I think that it is very important that if we are to take this as a religion of “peace” then moderates in the religion will have to start standing up to be heard. They must condemn the violence and terrorism that are carried out in its name by adherents of the religion and must stop supporting such efforts financially or tacitly. I do not think that it is racist to point out that Arab societies are not democratic nor do they respect human rights. If these are important issues, we must address them and call these societies and their leaders to account. We must do what we can to help these societies develop those institutions or they will fall back in terms of human development even further. Unless of course, you do not care and find this an unimportant goal.

Arabs and Muslims can handle respect for human righst, they can be tolerant, they can have working democracies. Just as we had to defeat Fascist forces in Germany, Japan and Italy to bring Europe into the enlightened modern world, just as we had to fight communists in the Soviet empire, China, and Latin America and Africa so too can we defeat the Islamofascist forces of intolerance who preach hate and intolerance.

Being intolerant of the intolerant and hating those that hate is not incompatible with Western enlightenment any more than it is for police to hate crime and judges to hate infractions of the law. Get real.

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Special note to Fred:

Starting a thread called the “Treacherous French”, which I mentioned in my original post was an example of your recent tirades against all things French.

I’ve been to Turkey, Kuwait and Pakistan. This insistence on travel credentials to participate in a debate is lame. I’m not going to get sucked into “some of my best friends are Muslim” with you. But, rest assured, I’ve got friends with a variety of faiths/beliefs.

My post was about you twisting and turning. Tell me, how does that put the onus on me to list the glories of Islam and the contributions of Muslims to the world?

In another thread, I agreed with you and even Mapo that certain cartoons depicting Condi as a house slave were beyond the pale. But, the whole “big lips” thing - it’s a political cartoon. In the same cartoon, Bush is depicted as something resembling the Count from Sesame Street. My point was, aside from the truly awful characterizations of her as a modern day plantation n***er, the other cartoons were fairly standard lampooning.

I posted because yet again, you are claiming to have taken different positions to what you’ve already posted. Rather than deal with that, you (predictably) ask me for a list of quotes, Muslim contributions, my personal travel history and the faith of my friends. Well, you know what? I’m not going to play that game Fred.

You’ve posted degrees of hate and nonsense. You disprove that. Good luck.

I’ll be over here constructing my next strawman and perfecting my effin’ weasel routine. :smiley: [/i]

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Rooftop:

I see that you have nothing to say regarding Muslim and Arab contributions. I will assume therefore that you cannot think of any either. I note this assumption is probably correct because despite your unwillingness to play my game you do point out to me that you have friends of the Muslim faith AND you have been to 3 Muslim countries. Good on you. How long were you at the airport in transit through Karachi? Or was it a quick over the border walk on the Karakorum Pass?

Which resort in Turkey were you at Fethiye, Bodrum, Kusadasi? or one of those resorts on the Emerald Coast around Alana or Adana? hah! Pah! Bah!

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Ok Fred,

Give me a detailed itinerary of your movements through the Middle East. Times, dates, records of what you saw, did, thought. Anything less is unacceptable.

List all of your friends that are Muslim and provide quotes that attest the friendship is current and has history.

Provide links to everything that may add to your own credibility as both a man free of prejudice, champion of Muslim rights, and friend to all French aside from Chirac and de Villepin.

Oh, and please feel free to make further assumptions about my own experiences there. Man, duty free was never this good!

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As an interesting footnote, Condi Rice had an oil tanker named after her. But now, Chevron is changing the name:

multinationalmonitor.org/mm2001/ … names.html