I am fed up of reading racist adverts asking for North American accents or worse Caucasian or whites only.
Surely, experience and qualifications should overide this.
I am British, white and would also be annoyed if they asked for UK only.
No race relations laws here ?
WE SHOULD COMPLAIN TO THE NEWPAPERS WHO ACCEPT THESE ADS. ( I do)
The âschoolsâ are permitted to specify their âteacherâ requirements as they deem appropriate. Its a business.
If one does not meet their stated requirements the schools do not have to employ such a person.
Its their business to have a program that brings in students. This is how they make money.
Its a business.
[quote=âTainanCowboyâ]The âschoolsâ are permitted to specify their âteacherâ requirements as they deem appropriate. Its a business.
If one does not meet their stated requirements the schools do not have to employ such a person.
Its their business to have a program that brings in students. This is how they make money.
Its a business.[/quote]
I can maybe understrand asking for a certain accent. For example. If I was Taiwanese and going to the UK to study I would want to learn the UK accent.
But asking for whites only is racist. A business should have to follow rules and guidelines as well. By TainanCowboys standards should said business be allowed to hire whites only and turn down equally qualified black people? No. That is wrong.
[quote=âLo Bo Toâ][quote=âTainanCowboyâ]The âschoolsâ are permitted to specify their âteacherâ requirements as they deem appropriate. Its a business.
If one does not meet their stated requirements the schools do not have to employ such a person.
Its their business to have a program that brings in students. This is how they make money.
Its a business.[/quote]I can maybe understrand asking for a certain accent. For example. If I was Taiwanese and going to the UK to study I would want to learn the UK accent.
But asking for whites only is racist. A business should have to follow rules and guidelines as well. By TainanCowboys standards should said business be allowed to hire whites only and turn down equally qualified black people? No. That is wrong.[/quote]Lo Bo To -
Before the ârace cardâ get played âŚagain.
Lets be clear about something.
What are the laws regarding this on/in Taiwan?
IMO, this is the 1st important item for consideration. And yes, I know about âlawâ on/in Taiwan.
2nd - These schools are businesses. That is what they are - People have them to make money. If they find a teacher profile that draws parents and students to their school that is what they will look for.
One would do well to leave their Western ideas about PC and other noble ideas such as this on the boarding ramp when you head off to the island of Taiwan.
Tghis is a racist place by many standards. And what these âschoolsâ want to put in their classrooms and display to the parents who give them money fits into the western notion of racism.
You want to fight it? You want to change their minds about things like this? Good Luck. Pack a lunch.
There are numerous blacks here on Taiwan who have done well in the english teacher system. They have succeeded in spite of what they have been presented with. They have done it by proving themselves in the classroom and in their life here. And, I think each one will tell you that it has not been an easy road.
Having said this, it is my opinion that a business should be permitted to hire the person that the business deems is in its best interests to hire.
If you want to get PC and call this racism, thats your interpretation. Think about what I said. Its called good business.
And by the way, about your comment â These are NOT my standards. Its the facts of life on Taiwan.
I am not an engrish teechur.
If schools hired on what they perceived was going to bring in the most students, anyone who was not a female, under a size 8, and had blonde hair and blue eyes would be on the street. Thank God not all schools think like Tainan Cowboy and condone racism.
The OP is saying we should do something about it. He is not playing couch critic and shrugging his shoulders because it doesnât affect him like some people in Taiwan do.
There is no law against job discrimination in Taiwan. But then, there were no laws against discrimination in the US not too long ago either.
Tainan Cowboy, Iâm curious of all of these blacks you know who have done well in the English school system here. I canât think of any, and considering Iâm black and know quite a few other black people here, that might be saying something. I have not done well because schools were color-blind. I was hired by my first school here simply because they were one teacher short with only three weeks to find one. I suspect that they couldnât find anyone else who could be suckered in for the hours (especially if one did the math when calculating the pay), especially since they required teachers certified in elementary or early childhood education and I wasnât certified nor had I taught children before being hired. I gained the respect and love of the children and parents, but not because of an expectation they had, but because itâs hard to disguise a genuine interest in teaching and in interacting with children. I still was three seconds from being fired everyday and the school didnât hesitate to give my job to the 22-year-old skinny blonde who couldnât manage her own classroom without the principal teaching half of her students.
Iâd hardly call spending 4 months looking for a job as a teacher with nearly 6 yearsâ teaching experience and a few teaching-related certificates and associations under her belt as âdoing well in the English teacher systemâ.
But considering the fact that the minute I stepped out of my former schoolâs shadow, I proved what I had said a few years ago - that if I left my school, Iâd pretty much be leaving for good because there was very little chance that I would be able to find another job here. In the 11th hour, a good forumosan who wasnât satisfied to just sit back and say âtough shitâ, stood up for me and put in a good word to his boss. Because of him, I am able to stay here to this day. Iâm glad not everyone is resigned to accept racism as being âgood business practice.â I just hope that one day, should your children face the same kind of racism, that you grow a bit stronger of a backbone and actually stand up for them rather than flopping around like a jellyfish with excuses.
But I suppose âin spite of what I have been presented withââŚassuming my skin color, I am still here. Despite the racism here and the laissez-faire attitude of those who could instead be involved in improving things.
[quote=âTainanCowboyâ]Having said this, it is my opinion that a business should be permitted to hire the person that the business deems is in its best interests to hire.
If you want to get PC and call this racism, thats your interpretation. Think about what I said. Its called good business.[/quote]
I would not call any practice âgood businessâ if it violates peopleâs civil rights, even if it is legal to do so.
Yes, of course its racism and the schools shouldnt do it and the papers shouldn`t accept adds supporting it- though they usually get around it by using terms like Western appearance or other euphemisms.
But if it`s due to the prejudices of the customers, a lot of those come from Hollywood- blacks speak in Ebonics; Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs and other brown people have funny accents; East Asians- why am I paying the big bucks for somebody who speaks like me.
And in my case, sexism, ageism and lookism (specifically, fattism).
You know Nama X :beatnik: has to way in on this. Imaniou has a thread about this called âthe black teacherâs search for employmentâ. Is it racist that employers wonât hire anyone but whites from certain countries. Yes but as TC says itâs a business. The reality of it is, there is no EEOC (equal employment oxx commission) here in Taiwan. And the Taiwanese arenât aware of the implications of racism. They donât have religious morals that have altered their views on other races. And give that there isnât a mass immigration of blacks and other races they arenât âforcedâ to revaluate their opinions.
Even in the US, racist hiring practices still exsist. You just have to be able to âproveâ it. I recall once reading an article about how employers where more likely not to hire a black with the name of Shaniqa, and Jamal because of the connatations that they were not likely to have good work ethics.
My last job in the States, woke me up to realizing how employers âweedâ out blacks for hire-by looking at their address. I was lucky to get the job because before they saw me, they saw my Anglo-Saxon name and address, which was a suburbian address. Yet, had I had the same name but an address from the West side, I know I wouldnât have got a call for an interview. I actually saw the boss throw away several applications of blacks whoâs applications I took and gave to her. I eventually quit to come back here, but not without filling a complaint because eventually her own racist attitudes were exhibted toward me.
Many posters here have said how they have made efforts in trying to educate their students about blacks and to teach them that we are humans. That the skin color is not indicative of our intelligence,personalities or abilities. The best that can be done is what my forefathers in America did when the cards were stacked against them. Do your best, never let anyone tell you canât and just know your worth.
As Martin Luther King once said-"If youâre gonna be a garbage man, be the best garbage man there is [sic]â I use that often to remind myself when I want to tell them to f#4#k off. But if I do my best and win the trust of the children, co teachers and parents, then their canât be any arguement for them to not to hire more blacks in the future.
That is probably the single most inspiring statement for combatting racist hiring practices. It applies not only to non-whites, but to foreigners in general here. If you put your best face forward, then you prove that the stereotypes are invalid for painting a whole group and educate the population.
As William Arthur Ward said, âThe poor teacher tells. The average teacher explains. The good teacher demonstrates. The excellent teacher inspires.â
Thanks Imaniou
I also forgot to add, that I"ve been on several interviews to buxibans that were owned by whites here and they didnât hire me either. But lead me to believe I would be because of my experience. The Taiwanese arenât the only ones capable of being racists.
Thanks Imaniou
I also forgot to add, that I"ve been on several interviews to buxibans that were owned by whites here and they didnât hire me either. But lead me to believe I would be because of my experience. The Taiwanese arenât the only ones capable of being racists when it comes to hiring.
He wasnât condoning racism. It seems he was explaining why schools have certain disturbing hiring practices. You seem very eager to paint a poor picture of him. Unfortunately, he is absolutely correct. As you know, an English school is a business. Hiring a person who will attract more students is good for the business. Owners will do whatever is necessary to ensure their business grows and maximizes profit. This profit is used to feed their children, pay for schooling, buy a house, etcâŚ
Clearly, you have never owned an English school on Taiwan. Think of it this way: You own a school. Also, you need to provide for your family. You can hire a black/asian/etc. teacher and attract 50 students or you can hire the âfemale, under a size 8, and had blonde hair and blue eyesâ person and attract 200 students. Which would you choose?
Please donât reply with a quick âwhichever person was more qualified!â answer. Your family depends on your schools income. Think about it. You would hire Miss BlondeHair and so would everyone else.
For schools to be advertizing for white and/or female teachers, itâs just not acceptable. If they want to hire certain accents, I say âWhy not?â
The difference between UK/Australia/New Zealand/South Africa, etc. and North America is evident, but that shouldnât really matter. I just donât see what difference it makes between an American or Canadian. Of course there are varying accents in North America, but itâs essentially the same.
Problems arise when youâve got a French Canadian with less than adequate English and/or bad pronunciation. Same goes for certain people in other countries such as South Africa where âkickâ is pronounced with a long âiâ.
[quote=âTainanCowboyâ]One would do well to leave their Western ideas about PC and other noble ideas such as this on the boarding ramp when you head off to the island of TaiwanâŚ
âŚHaving said this, it is my opinion that a business should be permitted to hire the person that the business deems is in its best interests to hire.
If you want to get PC and call this racism, thats your interpretation. Think about what I said. Its called good business.[/quote]
Gosh, Jimmy. I might not have a masterâs in English literature, but Iâm pretty sure that I can read pretty well. Canât you?
I only wonder how hiring practices based on how well you can do the job and not on your race, age, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc. is considered âpolitically correctâ. In my opinion, itâs more like âMCâ - morally correct. And itâs immoral to discriminate in something as important as education. But that, like Tainan Cowboyâs stance on racial discrimination being justifiable, is just my personal opinion.
Ironic how the greatest ignorance is being shown by those in charge of education.
In the long run, when hiring the thin blonde costs your school money because she doesnât know what sheâs doing and shows up for school events hung over and the parents (who very often socialize in networks with other parents from your school) start pulling their kids out left and right, then you can think about where your money is going to come from. If anything, I know of a handful of students that I, the black teacher, brought into the school and the number of parents who recommended the school to their friends, âin spite ofâ their kidsâ teacher being non-white.
But who am I to condone such overly PC practices? As I said, one day, when your children are discriminated against in the Chinese schools because of their biracial background, I hope that you will have already developed a spine (and a sense of morality) to finally stand up to racism here. But I fear for some, the only way they would ever stand up against racism is if it kicks their loved ones in the ass. And even then Iâd wonderâŚ
I agree, but being âmorally correctâ in the ESL industry usually doesnât put food on the table.
Hereâs the problem. You seem to think English teaching on Taiwan is about education. It is a business. Pure and simple.
They are fully aware of their actions and the repercussions of those actions.
Fortunately, this is a small percentage of teachers. In fact, I have never had a teacher act in the manner you have described. However, it is just as likely that a black teacher will do those things as a white teacher, no?
That is fantastic. Some parents will look past skin color, but most will not. The truth is the âthin blondeâ will attract more students.
Who says my children are not discriminated against? Have you ever been to Chiayi? Foreigners in Chiayi are, without a doubt, treated differently than in Taipei. You are speaking of things you have absolutely no knowledge of. My spine is fully intact and the ability to provide for my family is the highest priority.
Good business is about more than money - itâs also about ethics. A lapse in business ethics makes bad business, even if it rakes in the cash.
But when it all comes down to whether itâs easier for your kids to be treated fairly or to appease the parents of the other 1,000 students who donât see your children as being an equal, well, itâs only a business, right? 
And while itâs a business to the people who run the schools, it is not a business to the students who attend them. And those are the people who are being hurt the most by racist hiring practices because they are being educated in ignorance. That they can learn from only white people and that anyone of a different ethnicity is inferior intellectuallyâŚeven if that person is of the same ethnicity as they are.
Knowing that youâre a racist doesnât make you less of a racist. Knowing that youâre ignorant doesnât make you less ignorant. If you think that hiring a non-white to teach in your school is a financial liability, then I;m sorry, but you are ignorant.
How can parents look beyond skin color if they are never given the opportunity to? How can parents be educated that skin color has nothing to do with quality when school owners are simply telling them through their hiring practice that thatâs not true.
And what message are we sending to children by censoring the color of the people who are allowed to teach them?
I pose this question to the condoners who excuse racism as being financially sound practice:
What is your advice to every non-white person, every person over the age of 35, every person who weighs more than 50 kilos, and every person who is not a heterosexual?
âGo home before make the school lose students because they hired you over the cute girl who didnât know shit about teaching?â
âGo back to where youâre tolerated?â
âGo back to where youâre not a liability for a schoolâs income?â
âGo back to where you can âdo well in spite of what youâve been givenâ?â
Sorry, am I being too PC for you? I accidentally brought my skin color with me from the ramp. Canât be helped. In spite of what you might think as being good business practice and a way to put food on the table. I have a table too.
Iâve always felt it is the right of people to be racist. People can have their own preferences and they donât need to justify them you, me, or anyone else. You and I can choose to take our buisness elsewhere, but I donât think we have the right to enforce our beliefs on someone else-- even if we are in the majority.
If you* simply donât like people with blue eyes, then should there be a law saying you have to make friends with blue-eyed people? And if you want to start up your own business should you have to hire blue-eyed people? Sure, youâre the one being stupid and ignorant for hating blue-eyed people, but I strongly believe that is your right.
*meaning an arbitrary person
Now, in the case of government, it is absolutely wrong to have discriminatory hiring practices. In the case of publicly traded companies where people from all backgrounds can own a piece of the company it makes perfect sense to disallow discrimination because of gender, race, religion, etc.
But when you are telling an individual, or a small business owner, that they cannot discriminate based on their own prejudices, or more importantly, their perception of how others prejudices will influence their profits, then you are stomping on the rights of that person. The civil rights violation is going the other way.
That doesnât mean I condone the decision to discriminate. Itâs either a case of racism or a case of putting profit over principle. Neither of which are in the long-term good decisions.
And yet, I wonder how quickly minds would be changed if the tables were turned against you.
Oh wait. Arenât there whole threads of people bitching about how unfair it that XYZ wonât let them do/have/live/marry ZYX because theyâre a foreigner?
Oh what fun it will be to throw things back into peopleâs faces.
I believe the original conclusion was to leave your Western ideas of equality back at the ramp. I plan to run with this anytime I hear about how unfair life is as a laowai.
I have a plethora of quotes to use from fellow forumosans to support my newly-found lack of sympathy.
âI think companies should have the right to hire people according to race.â
âBut I donât condone racism.â
I donât get the the jump in logic between those 2 sentences.