That is a very low blow. :fume:
I don’t think you know enough about me or my school to say that.
[quote=“WolvesMon”]I am fed up of reading racist adverts asking for North American accents or worse Caucasian or whites only.
Surely, experience and qualifications should overide this.
I am British, white and would also be annoyed if they asked for UK only.
No race relations laws here ?
WE SHOULD COMPLAIN TO THE NEWPAPERS WHO ACCEPT THESE ADS. ( I do)[/quote]
I think you point out a couple of issues here. 1) North American accents and hiring of language teachers. 2) whites only policies in hiring.
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arises from the fact that America is by far Taiwan’s largest trading partner in the English speaking world. This has created demand for English language teachers who possess North American accents. I guess the rational is that one ought to learn English in a way most intelligible to your trade partner. I’ve often argued that English is English the world over and one is best to get used to a variety of usages and accents if one wishes to be a speaker of the language. However, accent and pronunciation are skills of a sort. Seeking a teacher who has the skills to model a certain English usage and pronunciation is not unreasonably discriminatory.
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Is unreasonably discriminatory. It is discrimination based on no skill or ability, only color. It’s stupid and there’s no excuse for such a policy in a company (although there may be explanations such as pressure from clients).
In short, I think a case could be made for 1) [as much as that might piss us off], but no excuse could be made to hire (or not) based on race.
“You’re job search will be more difficult.”[/quote]
Do you think such a situation is acceptable?
I don’t. It is unjust, and something must be done to counter the injustice, rather than just simply rolling over and accepting the injustice.[/quote]
Depends what side of the fence you are looking from. It’s easy for some to sit on a high horse and say “I would never do this…” or “I would never do that…” when they have no one depending on them to put food on the table or clothes on their backs.
I would love it if all Taiwanese parents didn’t care who was teaching their children, but that is never going to happen.
That is a very low blow. :fume:
I don’t think you know enough about me or my school to say that.[/quote]You seem happy to support hiring people depending on their skin colour to make a quick buck, what else is there to know ?
Am I supposed to say “peace” now so it’s doesn’t look like a personal attack on you ?
That is a very low blow. :fume:
I don’t think you know enough about me or my school to say that.[/quote]You seem happy to support hiring people depending on their skin colour to make a quick buck, what else is there to know ?[/quote]
Really? I SUPPORT this or I understand why it is done?
And are you suggesting that I DO this in my school?
Are you so sure about these accusations?
And so now I’m disingenuous too?
Tell me, who have I attacked in this thread?
That is a very low blow. :fume:
I don’t think you know enough about me or my school to say that.[/quote]
Did I say that about you? To paraphrase other posters, “Don’t make it personal.” If you know it’s not true about you, then why think that it applies to you?
Just as I don’t represent all black people in the world, I don’t think you represent all the buxiban owners.
Did I come over idealistic? No. I knew I would have difficulties. Unlike many people who come here, I did quite a bit of research about the job market here and about people’s experiences. I started my research over a year before coming to Taiwan. That’s how I knew that I needed to get a headstart on my search. I know, many fob’s can come after asking the standard questions about visas and recruiters without much thought of what if they can’t find a job because as long as they’re not drunk, high, or filthy during their interview, they’ve got it. I had to jump through significantly more hoops than that.
As I said, I was not surprised by the reactions that buxiban owners had to my race. What surprised me was (and is) the reaction of foreign school owners and foreigners here toward the open discriminatory practices here. I thought I left all the troglodytes back in the good ol’ US of A. But it turns out they have a traveling cousin who goes beyond the confines of the trailer park (and for the record, my father’s half of the family are the perfect stereotype of trailer park trash).
I was even more surprised to find out that there were white males who had just arrived straight out of college being hired at jobs that I had been just told had no vacancies.
Essentially, what I see being reiterated in this thread is that hiring blacks or Asians is bad business, causes schools to lose significant enough money to make it standard practice to not do it, and it’s wrong for me to think that it’s something that people should do because I am imposing my own alien cultural beliefs onto the Taiwanese…you know, the one where all men are created equal and all that other bullshit that was engrained in my education. That because I don’t run a school myself I have no right to say it’s wrong to hire solely based on race and not on qualifications.
I can understand why some white people, particularly white males, would have an absence of sympathy for the plight of non-white teachers. I mean, for every black, overseas Chinese, or SE Asian job candidate they turn down, that’s just one more job for you. For every vacancy there is, that means more hours for you and more money invested into your salary. I’ve grown up enough to not expect much from those who reap innumerable benefits from my struggle. As long as it’s NIMBY, you don’t care. Congratulations.
But it is very inspiring to hear that not everyone is so ready to sit on their high horse and wash their hands of inequality with excuses to justify it, even if it doesn’t harm them directly. Sometimes it takes those who are not in the harm’s way saying that something ain’t right in order for others to take the idea seriously. It’s one thing for me to say racial discrimination sucks and it needs to stop, but I have no say. No matter how I feel, I am still at the whim of the people in charge. It’s another,though, for someone, like a buxiban owner who has the power to do something about it, to also say that it sucks and needs to stop.
You don’t know what it’s like to have almost every door shut in your face, just because of the color of your face. Economically… socially… physically. I don’t expect everyone to care. It would be stupidly idealistic of me to believe that some people actually think of others. But for those who do think that it’s wrong, let’s do something to start a change.
Because AFAIK, I’m the only foreign owner involved in this discussion. I’m personally shocked that you would even think it. Did you?
Tsk tsk. 
I think it needs to be made clear that merely stating the reality that there is racism in hiring practices here doesn’t in itself make them racist.
The perception of racism can, however, raise its head when people don’t state this reality as if it is a problem that needs solving.
If we gave up on the civil rights movement because some people would still be racist even after it succeeded, where would we be?
Would it kill you to hire an overseas Chinese person or a black person? Would your school fail and force your family out on the street from hiring someone who wasn’t 22 years old and had measurements straight out of a magazine? Would your family starve if you hired someone based on what was in their resume instead of what was in the photo at the top of it?
Seriously. You all make it sound like your whole lives would collapse if you actually stopped letting yourself believe that Taiwanese parents couldn’t handle a non-traditional foreign teacher.
Newsflash: They can.
No, this is a stupid misconception made by stupid owners. Smart owners have good teachers. Full stop.
And a lot do. In fact MOST of privately run buxibans I know of…
I don’t know what’s it’s like. You’re right. And it’s a shitty thing to have to go through I’m certain.
You want to change it? So do I. How? How can small schools make a bigger difference?
And I mean this,
Peace 
If we gave up on the civil rights movement because some people would still be racist even after it succeeded, where would we be?[/quote]
I’m in 100% agreement with ImaniOU here. As they say, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. We have a choice of accepting injustice or fighting it. I choose to fight it, even if the prospects of 100% success are nil.
I don’t know any owners who enjoy hiring based on race. However, many will hire based on what is best for their business.
Of course you have the right, but you need to fully understand why they hire based on race.
Ridiculous.
If we gave up on the civil rights movement because some people would still be racist even after it succeeded, where would we be?
Would it kill you to hire an overseas Chinese person or a black person? Would your school fail and force your family out on the street from hiring someone who wasn’t 22 years old and had measurements straight out of a magazine? Would your family starve if you hired someone based on what was in their resume instead of what was in the photo at the top of it?
Seriously. You all make it sound like your whole lives would collapse if you actually stopped letting yourself believe that Taiwanese parents couldn’t handle a non-traditional foreign teacher.
Newsflash: They can.[/quote]
Maybe you should think about schools that aren’t in Taipei City; schools that have only one FT. And the school across the way has a tall blond boy from Iowa. Your school has a Filipina married to a loca, a great teacher, but brown as the Earth and carrying an accent…
the answer might well be “Yes,” having her might put you out of business, and that means not only you, but all your staff, not to mention all your students who now have to find another good school.
And NO, to be perfectly clear, I’m not in this position, and even if I was, I’d still keep the Filipina, because she’s a good teacher, and she doesn’t need an ARC.
But not every owner is in a position to say “Fuck 'em.”
To take a quote from Star Trek as well as I can remember:
someone: “What do you want me to say ? That I care ? What good would that do ?”
Sisko: “It would be a start.”
You’ll be surprised at how easy it is…
No really. One step to solve your problems…
Don’t ask for photos with applications.
If the parents complain about their kid having an ABC/older/black teacher and want to move their kids out of the class, say that there’s not really a space in the other class, but when one comes up and they are still dissatisfied, you will see what you can do to rearrange their class. And then don’t bring it up again. Kinda like my bathroom rule. If they forget to ask again after alloted time, be it 2 minutes or when a space opens up, then it’s not that big of an issue.
So it’s a white lie. But it keeps them in the school and it gives the teacher a chance. If the parents are absolutely adamant about their kids changing classes, then that kind of attitude is probably not one that will be easy to work with when any other situation comes up that’s not to the parents’ liking. I mean what do you do when a parent gets pissed off about something you disagree on? You certainly wouldn’t bend over backwards if it’s not a problem for the rest of the class.
Anyways, this is what my school said when a parent complained about the very strong accent of a British teacher. And by the end of the first month they were very happy with the teacher.
All she needed was a chance.
If we gave up on the civil rights movement because some people would still be racist even after it succeeded, where would we be?[/quote]
I’m in 100% agreement with ImaniOU here. As they say, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. We have a choice of accepting injustice or fighting it. I choose to fight it, even if the prospects of 100% success are nil.[/quote]
The best for ANY teacher to prove his/her worth is to help the school open new classes, put more butts in the seats and make the school a wheelbarrowful of money…what owner in their right friggin mind would fire this teacher, regardless of race, accent, weight or whatever?
Ridiculous.[/quote]
Is it, though? How often do you think of people who are worse off than you, especially if the only time you hear about it is in a newspaper article? It’s easy to distance yourself from someone else’s troubles when you are not directly affected by it.
If you can apply for a teaching job and receive a response for an interview within a week, you’re already much better off than I am.
To the parents, it might be a blatant lie.
“He said he’d move my daughter, but he didn’t. He just wants our money and doesn’t care what we think.”
And she’ll tell every fucking person who comes by her noodle shop the same story that we’re big fat liars.
No photos? That’s cool. Everyone gets an interview.