Racist French Unilateralists

PARIS, France (Reuters) – Turkey will not join the European Union for at least 15 years and could only do so once France had held a referendum on the issue, French Finance Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said on Sunday.

French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin voiced misgivings on Thursday about Turkey joining the bloc, asking if Europe really wanted “the river of Islam to enter the riverbed of secularism.”

edition.CNN.com/2004/WORLD/Europ … index.html

I think that it is wrong of France to try to keep Turkey out of the EU and this sounds like a very unilateralist and racist approach. Who agrees with me?

The French will be French.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Some selected post cards of the Glorious French

As one can see, that story about the French planting trees so the Germans would not have to march is the sun is just a myth.

Well even I would not wish a Nazi invasion on France, but I do think that the French government should behave more rationally. I realize it is difficult to be sidelined and that they do not want their country to become just an appendage of the Anglo-American empire but really! when it comes to sandbagging other countries just to maintain this “independence” we must ask at what cost? world stability? world prosperity? freedom and democracy in the Middle East? the threat of a new arms race in East Asia? I applaud the French for trying to preserve their life, language and customs but this exceptionalism is coming at far too great a cost. I don’t know if the rest of the world can bear it.

Most of Turkey is in Asia not in Europe, so why should they join the European union?
Politicians form counties all over Europe don’t want Turkey to join, so why is it unilateral by the French?
I understand the reason why the US would prefer Turkey to join, but what would be the benefit of the Europeans?

[quote=“robi666”]Most of Turkey is in Asia not in Europe, so why should they join the European union?
Politicians form counties all over Europe don’t want Turkey to join, so why is it unilateral by the French?
I understand the reason why the US would prefer Turkey to join, but what would be the benefit of the Europeans?[/quote]

Good points.

Of course Turkey has allied itself with the US and its action with the NATO agreements. US bases in Turkey and all that.

Perhaps this pro-US stance is part of the Euro’s anti-Turkey position?

Another point is Turkeys resistance to expanding Islamic nationalism. This may be a poiny in thier favor as European countries face this within their borders. Just a thought.

Robi:

Well then is it not better for France to go through the EU government and not make unilateral statements about what the EU will do with regard to Turkey? I mean the US was criticized for acting without 2/3rds majority of the UN security council, what then gives France the right to act so unilaterally when it is committed to EU foreign policy guidelines? And would this not be a good time for the French to shut up as they advised the Eastern Europeans when they spoke individually not through the EU? And would it not be a good time for the French to butt out when they disallowed any US comments about Turkey’s EU candidacy? I am just very confused about when nations are to be accused of racism, nationalism and unilateralism. Perhaps you could set a standard so we could all live by it?

It should be threatened once in a while to keep them in check.

[quote=“fred smith”]Robi:

Well then is it not better for France to go through the EU government and not make unilateral statements about what the EU will do with regard to Turkey? I mean the US was criticized for acting without 2/3rds majority of the UN security council, what then gives France the right to act so unilaterally when it is committed to EU foreign policy guidelines? And would this not be a good time for the French to shut up as they advised the Eastern Europeans when they spoke individually not through the EU? And would it not be a good time for the French to butt out when they disallowed any US comments about Turkey’s EU candidacy? I am just very confused about when nations are to be accused of racism, nationalism and unilateralism. Perhaps you could set a standard so we could all live by it?[/quote]

Well the European union and the UN are very different. So i think that is difficult to compare.
As you might no there is no common European foreign policy.

Turkey is not a European country - only a very small part of it is in Europe geographically, and it is not European culturally. Have you been to Europe lately? The northern countries are overrun with Turks already, and they are not fitting in very well; probably the governments of these countries are worried about what would happen if all 70 million Turks were allowed free access. Not to mention that one of the great problems in France right now is the schism between Islam and Christianity (including secularized French of Christian origins). Maybe the French government is just being realistic, not racist, when it says it doesn’t want Turkey to join the EU.

France can have any reason it wants but it claims it does not want a river of Islam flowing through Christendom. That sounds racist to me no? Or how am I getting this wrong?

Finally, I am not the one that argued against nations acting in their sovereign interests. Others on this forum did when the US action against Iraq was taken. I am just struggling to understand how the French action can be seen as anything other than gross unilateralism. I mean regardless of the lack of a common EU foreign policy, France has committed itself to going through certain channels. This should not have been announced by a French politician in such a way but could have been raised behind closed doors and then the EU could have said something. That is the method that France frequently claims it prefers. It asked Eastern European nations to shut up and go through the EU. How is this different? More French “exceptionalism?”

Sounds like a double standard to me. Heads France wins, tails anyone else loses.

[quote=“fred smith”]France can have any reason it wants but it claims it does not want a river of Islam flowing through Christendom. That sounds racist to me no? Or how am I getting this wrong?
[/quote]

yes you are getting it wrong as Islam is not a race or limited to one. It might be stupid or conservative but not racist.

The unilateralist cowboy Chirac in action again… Maybe some regime change in France is needed?

[quote]Soon after winning his second term as president last year, Chirac quarreled with British Prime Minister Tony Blair over a range of European issues. The two were not on speaking term for almost six months.

Chirac then had a row with Italy

la grande nation

i dont understand what you are complaining about

The French have no interest in troubling themselves with consulting the EU when they want to do something. It’s only the silly English who bother to abide by EU regulations. The French do whatever the hell they fancy, and always will. Got to admire them for that in a way.

Why should we admire the French for not obeying the rules? As I recall, America is being hounded around the world for not “obeying” rules that no one agreed upon. The French are breaking specific commitments that they made on a very legal basis and are getting off essentially scot free. Why? What explains the difference?

I’m not a big fan of Chirac but he was the option other than Lepin for the French electorate at one time. Many French people voted for Chirac as an alternative to seeing Lepin and his ultra-right party attain power.

Observers of the current US elections should well understand how sometimes the choice you make has much to do with who you absolutely cannot tolerate as a leader.

Tainan Cowboy posting pictures of “The Glorious French” showing French people’s reaction to Nazi invasion seems beneath even the usual standards of assinine postings of many in this forum.

Obviously there are vast differences and I’m not drawing a contemporary parallel but posting pictures of Tibetans as the Communist Chinese army rolled in under the banner “The Glorious Tibetans” might not be so easily let off around here.

As it was explained to me, the headscarf ban was for schools as France wants educational institutions to be secular institutions where symbols of religion should not divide.

Personally, I disagree. In Canada, there was a case once about a Sikh who fought and won the right to wear his turban while serving in the RCMP. For some religions, these ‘accessories’ have great significance both culturally and religiously.

So, I don’t like the ban. But, it wasn’t enacted because France wants to stamp out Islam or something.

Though if that were the case, I’m chilled at the thought of who on this forum might laud their efforts.

Sadly…this line of rhetoric has been pumped out loudly and repetitively to the US voting populace. In the finest traditions of telling a story loud enough and long enough it does indeed manage to convince a % of people that the rhetoric might be true.
The DNC machine got behind a candidate that has provenb to be a liability. Kerry is imploding and its scramble time. This is going to affect the foundations of the Demo Party in the USA. Personally I think its a good thing. It happened to the Republican Party not so long ago and they emerged stronger and more unified with greater accountability to a wider range of the people. If this same revamping occurs in the Demo Party then it portends good for all. Lets hope and see.

[quote=“rooftop”]Tainan Cowboy posting pictures of “The Glorious French” showing French people’s reaction to Nazi invasion seems beneath even the usual standards of assinine postings of many in this forum.[/quote]Your revisionist tendencies are much too blatant here. I posted the pictures for several reasons. To show the results of lack of national unity. To show the historical results of capitulations. To show that moral indignation is not enought, that determination and action are what truly counts in a time of war.
And also, to give photographic evidence that the story indicated was just a myth. The photo of the man crying over the Germans marching into Paris is touching. However, I recall no follow-up story of this man joining the Resistance. Tears don’t kill the enemy.

I must have missed that posting. Did this actually happen? Or is this just rhetoric? Hyperbole? Not really sure. I may use weird humor on occasion, but I try to stick to the facts as can be supported in making any points of information.

Now…back to your Fred-bashing…I like watching! :smiley:

Indeed that is exactly what Bush did in the last election re his economic policy. Anybody that did the math worked out that his figures, even using his assumptions didn’t add up. However Bush worked out that as long as he kept it simple, kept smiling, and kept on with the same message, that people would end up thinking it must be true. It was difficicult to believe that he could be so bare-faced, so people just accepted it.