Radioactive apartments in Taipei

[history_nerd]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_radiation_accidents

Radioactive steel scavenged from a nuclear reactor was melted into rebar and used in the construction of apartment buildings in northern Taiwan, mostly in Taipei, from 1982 through 1984. Over 2,000 apartment units and shops were suspected as having been built with the materials.[14] At least 10,000 people are known to have been exposed to long-term low-level irradiation as a result, with at least 40 deaths due to cancer.[15] In 1985, the Taiwanese Atomic Energy Commission covered up the discovery of high levels of radiation in an apartment building by blaming a dentist operating an imaging machine. However, in the summer of 1992, a utility worker for the Taiwanese state-run electric utility Taipower brought a Geiger counter to his apartment to learn more about the device, and discovered that his apartment was contaminated.[15] Despite awareness of the problem, owners of some of the buildings known to be contaminated have continued to rent apartments out to tenants (in part because selling the units is illegal), and as of at least 2003 and likely to the present, no coordinated effort has been made to track down the remaining affected structures. The Taiwan AEC has harassed medical researchers looking into the consequences.[15] Some researchers from Taiwan claimed that the gamma rays from the cobalt-60 had a beneficial effect upon the health of the tenants.[16]

Does anyone know if these apartments are still around and if so where are they?

[cranky_laowai]

About 10-15 years ago I saw a map indicating the apartments. IIRC Fuxing North Road had a lot of those places.

[tempogain]

there’s a list of them online somewhere. i believe there was a post here some years ago about it with a link.

[Charlie_Jack]

Here are a couple of posts that talk about it:

Recommendations/the market (adult schools-followup)

List of radioactive buildings in Northern Taiwan: tw.myblog.yahoo.com/a34610078/archive?l=f&id=38 Some of the ones in my old neighborhood are very famous, like the Minsheng Villas on Longjiang Road. Others have been demolished and replaced by temples or new buildings. A lot are still standing. Plugging any of these addresses into the “Radioactive Building Verification Site” (which belongs to the AEC) yields no useful information, but I don’t believe that’s relevant since even Minsheng Villas…

Recommendations/the market (adult schools-followup)

Global Village’s website lists the address as 台北市南京東路三段301號1-3樓 for their Dunhua Branch. The list of radioactive buildings in the Songshan district ( tw.myblog.yahoo.com/a34610078/ar … l=f&fid=38 ) lists all four floors of that building as contaminated at items 50 through 53. Visiting the building shows that it is indeed a four-floor structure of approximately the right age to be part of the contaminated building scandal.

There’s a page that contains a map (or maybe a reduced copy of one) that is entitled, “Map of radiation contamination of Taipei City by application of Co 60 as a rebar for buildings and infrastructure.” At the size at which the map is shown on the page, I find it difficult to read. Additionally, I cannot vouch for its accuracy. The map is about halfway down the page: kalmatron.com/files/files1/a … chure.html

Here’s an excerpt of a study by W. L. Chen and others, apparently undertaken in Taiwan, which seems to say that among the radiation-exposed subjects of this particular study there was a smaller percentage of congenital defects and cancer deaths than would be expected in the general population (perhaps I read the document wrong):

In these comparisons, the health effects observed strongly contradict the predictions of the ICRP models. The actual number of cancer deaths and the actual number of congenital malformations are many times smaller than the numbers expected based on the natural incidence of cancer mortality and natural incidence congenital malformations (see below), whereas the ICRP models predict numbers in excess of the natural incidences.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/

Please note that I am not making the claim that this study seems to make.

[Abacus]

[quote=“Charlie Jack”]
Here’s an excerpt of a study by W. L. Chen and others, apparently undertaken in Taiwan, which seems to say that among the radiation-exposed subjects of this particular study there was a smaller percentage of congenital defects and cancer deaths than would be expected in the general population (perhaps I read the document wrong):

In these comparisons, the health effects observed strongly contradict the predictions of the ICRP models. The actual number of cancer deaths and the actual number of congenital malformations are many times smaller than the numbers expected based on the natural incidence of cancer mortality and natural incidence congenital malformations (see below), whereas the ICRP models predict numbers in excess of the natural incidences.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/

Please note that I am not making the claim that this study seems to make.[/quote]

Did anyone ask W. L. Chen and his scientists if they would move their family into one of these buildings?

[lupillus]

Government website to look up radioactive housing:
http://gamma.aec.gov.tw/ray/house.asp

[Charlie_Jack]

[quote=“Abacus”][quote=“Charlie Jack”]
Here’s an excerpt of a study by W. L. Chen and others, apparently undertaken in Taiwan, which seems to say that among the radiation-exposed subjects of this particular study there was a smaller percentage of congenital defects and cancer deaths than would be expected in the general population (perhaps I read the document wrong):

In these comparisons, the health effects observed strongly contradict the predictions of the ICRP models. The actual number of cancer deaths and the actual number of congenital malformations are many times smaller than the numbers expected based on the natural incidence of cancer mortality and natural incidence congenital malformations (see below), whereas the ICRP models predict numbers in excess of the natural incidences.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/

Please note that I am not making the claim that this study seems to make.[/quote]

Did anyone ask W. L. Chen and his scientists if they would move their family into one of these buildings? [/quote]

I don’t know, but I’d rather not live in one.

[tommy525]

I had the mistaken belief they were torn down. Guess not. But it should be illegal not to disclose that fact to renters. They should be torn down. Unless of course it is proven that it is in fact a benefit (highly doubting that) to have the radioactive bars.

I know , or have heard that since then all imported scrap is checked with a geiger counter before being melted down. Lets hope that is in fact true.

[Icon]

According to my coworker, the houses in question were built after 1983, so if your house is older, you should be OK. He also mentions that, in case of doubt, you can go to the Atomic Energy Commission, and they will give you a questionnaire regarding your home, which company built it, etc. and may lend you a Geiger -paying a deposit, of course. Or if you are really worried, ask for a technician to check it out -free of charge.

The houses are still around. Remember the ads from Xinyi Real Estate, where they promised 3 guarantees: no “tragic” homes, no flooded, no radiation. sigh

[Icon]

For your reference:

This is a building close to Ronxin Park. It has a sign saying: Buyers beware, civic groups have determined this is one of the radioactive rebar buildings. Don’t know how true it is but the sign has been up for months. There is people living there, several businesses, and of course, a real estate office dowstairs…

[spaint]

@Charlie Jack

Here’s an excerpt of a study by W. L. Chen and others, apparently undertaken in Taiwan, which seems to say that among the radiation-exposed subjects of this particular study there was a smaller percentage of congenital defects and cancer deaths than would be expected in the general population (perhaps I read the document wrong):

That is just about the least scientific document ever published.

First, Chen is of dubious background; it’s possible he’s connected to the Atomic Energy Commission and hence had an agenda in producing this piece.

Second, Chen compared the demographic of people who bought these houses (mostly younger couples with children) to the general population of Taiwan (with its large component of elderly). When you compare the subjects of this study to their own cohort (i.e. the people who are of the same generation as them) then the figures present a completely different story.

[quote=“Icon”]

This is a building close to Ronxin Park. It has a sign saying: Buyers beware, civic groups have determined this is one of the radioactive rebar buildings. Don’t know how true it is but the sign has been up for months. There is people living there, several businesses, and of course, a real estate office dowstairs…[/quote]

The sign’s been there for years. Minsheng villas is the place where the whole radioactive rebar story broke.
teanonline.org/index.php/en/ … -buildings

List of radioactive buildings in northern Taiwan (in Chinese):
tw.myblog.yahoo.com/a34610078/archive?l=f&id=38

[Icon]

Good to know agents/the public are aware of which are these houses. Nevertheless, it begs the question: if the owners cannot sell them, nor do they receive compensation, then what? Are they suposed just to die off? That’s the people, but what about the buildings? Why doesn’t anyone take them down for good?

Sincerely, all this is %^&$& up. :loco:

[Charlie_Jack]

@spaint

. . . it’s possible he’s connected to the Atomic Energy Commission. . . .

Yeah, page 5 (the last page of the pdf document, page 10 in the original journal) of this 2004 article in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons shows that the first eight coauthors of the article I linked to earlier in the thread formerly worked for the Institute of Nuclear Energy Research (INER) of Taiwan’s Atomic Energy Council (AEC). The last page of the pdf article also shows that in addition to his former position as Head of the Health Physics Division of INER, W. L. Chen either is or was at one time (more likely was) the Head of the Radiation Protection Department of the AEC.

[olm]

[quote=“history_nerd”]From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_radiation_accidents

Radioactive steel scavenged from a nuclear reactor was melted into rebar and used in the construction of apartment buildings in northern Taiwan, mostly in Taipei, from 1982 through 1984. Over 2,000 apartment units and shops were suspected as having been built with the materials.[14] At least 10,000 people are known to have been exposed to long-term low-level irradiation as a result, with at least 40 deaths due to cancer.[15] In 1985, the Taiwanese Atomic Energy Commission covered up the discovery of high levels of radiation in an apartment building by blaming a dentist operating an imaging machine. However, in the summer of 1992, a utility worker for the Taiwanese state-run electric utility Taipower brought a Geiger counter to his apartment to learn more about the device, and discovered that his apartment was contaminated.[15] Despite awareness of the problem, owners of some of the buildings known to be contaminated have continued to rent apartments out to tenants (in part because selling the units is illegal), and as of at least 2003 and likely to the present, no coordinated effort has been made to track down the remaining affected structures. The Taiwan AEC has harassed medical researchers looking into the consequences.[15] Some researchers from Taiwan claimed that the gamma rays from the cobalt-60 had a beneficial effect upon the health of the tenants.[16]

Does anyone know if these apartments are still around and if so where are they?[/quote]

I know it’s old news and an old thread, but if you live in one of those appartments you might want to try this recently announced phone
Android Phone with integrated Geiger counter for detecting gamma radiation

Or, if you want to try something really crazy, try an app that (after some calibration) turns your Android Phone’s or iPhone’s camera chip into a gamma radiation detector. This is not a joke app, but a serious, though weird, project. Not all phones are useful in this role, but several popular ones are. That’s what I call real hacking: adding totally new functions to ordinary devices

[darienpeak]

[quote=“Icon”]Good to know agents/the public are aware of which are these houses. Nevertheless, it begs the question: if the owners cannot sell them, nor do they receive compensation, then what? Are they suposed just to die off? That’s the people, but what about the buildings? Why doesn’t anyone take them down for good?
[/quote]

A reasonable question to raise. The half-life of cobalt-60 is about 5 years; whatever the radioactivity was in 1982, 30 years, or six half-lives later, now it’s 1/64 or about 1.6% of what it was. It would be interesting to repeat the measurements and see if it can be measured above the background radiation.

[darienpeak]

@Charlie Jack

[quote=“spaint”]. . . it’s possible he’s connected to the Atomic Energy Commission. . . .

Yeah, page 5 (the last page of the pdf document, page 10 in the original journal) of this 2004 article in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons [/quote]

Interesting article! 400 mSv on average, that’s a big dose, though I guess it was received over many years; to compare, 10,000 mSv (acutely) is unsurvivable and 2 mSv would be a modern CT scan of the head, 10 mSv would be a modern CT scan of the abdomen and pelvis, 0.02-0.1 mSv is a two-view chest x-ray (depending on the age of equipment used), and 3 mSv is your normal annual background dose. According to the article, as of 10 years ago the dose in the affected apartments was about 5 mSv/year; this should now be 1.25 mSv/year, less than the yearly background dose.

On the flip side, working backwards, if the dose were 5 mSv/year in 2002, that would mean that initially it was about 80 mSv/year in 1982. Yikes.

[Taiwan_Luthiers]

I suppose you can now use your smartphones as a real working tricorder…