Good luck. My mom also passed and though I was under 20, it was still extremely difficult to get the taiwan ID. I did end up succeeding though, so there is certainly hope.
Unfortunately what was most helpful was a pretty high up official who felt bad for me and personally took on my case when the idiots at the desk refused because they didn’t know how. Just get all your documents straight and wish for the best. Be stubborn if need be.
That being said… I’m not sure it was worth the effort I put into it. If you’re not planning on living in taiwan long term I’d reconsider why you’re doing this. It’s not an easy process.
@paperclip: Thank you, it’s encouraging to know so many of us are out there… determined to make it work. I do have to think about what I want long term, but I am glad to hear it is even a possibility!
@Audrey No problem! Of course I really want to help people in our situation. You actually made my day by posting that it was helpful to you – it’s personally very meaningful to me.
To be honest, I got really exhausted by people telling me I had no chance, and those people typically were completely unqualified to make such statements and never checked into it at all. At the same time, even the people answering the phone at NIA seem to not always give accurate advice. It’s really unsettling for me to know that there are likely people who are legally qualified to apply but who do not apply due to bad advice or prejudice. If you need any help at all don’t hesitate to ask and I’ll do my best to provide any information I can.
If you’re not male, maybe one positive difference in our cases would be that military service would not be compulsory.
I think @paperclip if I recall correctly your case had some different aspects from ours based on date of birth or age. I would need to look through it again to be sure. Was it different for people under a certain age?
Yes, it’s different for applicants under 20. They don’t need to spend a year until they can obtain household registration.
Thank you for posting your updates. I will find out more about my situation (older than 20, TW parent alive, but not a citizen anymore) this week because I’ve since arrived in Taiwan.
I would send a mail to them asking if “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出 生之子 女,年 齡在 二十歲 以 上” (application option AF384) is applicable. If they say yes, you could show the mail to a front person at TECO.
I’m not sure the people answering the mail are any better than people answering the phone. I think I tried email at one point and people were not helpful. I just got generic copy-paste responses. I highly recommend going in person to the counters with experts (not the main entrance desk people who also probably have no idea) and asking them in Chinese if possible (or Taiwanese I suppose ).
Yes, I did not need to get a TARC first because minors do not have to reside in taiwan for a period of time before getting ID.
I can definitely relate to the frustration of working with uninformed people at my local TECO and even in Taiwan though. Such cases are so rare they’ve likely never seen it before and don’t want the risk of doing something wrong and being scolded by superiors.
Good luck! Definitely go in person to ask, and keep insisting on seeing the supervisor. I hope you’re planning on registering in Taipei, because there’s a higher chance you’ll get someone who knows what she’s doing. I had to get my hukou in the south and I swear those people never even saw an ABT before… plus they had to constantly mail documents between that branch office and Taipei.
I went to the NIA today (didn’t know that the health examination took so long, so I only was able to go today). When the clerk asked for my mother’s household registration, I gave them the 除戶謄本, but they said this cannot be used. Why? According to them, my mother requires an active household registration.
They explained it like this: AF353 is for people who have a direct relative with current household registration. This we can all agree with. AF384 (my status), on the other hand, would be for children born overseas (and older than 20) whose ROC parent passed away in the meantime, but had active HHR at the time of their death.
They (another clerk) said they consulted their “law expert” who said that my case is not suitable. I asked them where in the law is written that the parent must be deceased for AF384 applicants, but they just said something like “this is how we follow the guidelines.”
So I’m kinda at a loss right now. Obviously my case is a little bit different to yours because my mother is still alive, but I still don’t understand why they insist on this “parent must be deceased” part even though it’s written nowhere. They also said that the clerk which my mother and I called some months ago was probably wrong and just said something which she thought was correct. Unfortunately I don’t remember her name so there was no way I could refer her.
By the way, they also said that for AF384 applicants whose ROC parent gave up their passport before passing away, they could not apply by AF384 in any case.
So my question first would be, to all of those applicants here with a deceased ROC parent, was (s)he still ROC national at their time of death or did they only have a foreign passport? If they had given up their ROC passport and you could still apply, there would be a hint of arbitrary misinterpreting the law.
Anything else I could do? Do you think I can get in tough with “upper management”? The clerk at last gave me the phone number of their “law expert,” but I’m reluctant to simply call him. I would prefer to talk about my case in person.
Sorry, I am a little confused by your case. You have a living parent who is an ROC citizen but without active hukou? Then it’s relatively easy - your parent must reactivate her hukou, and after that you may apply.
My mom had an active hukou at the time of her death, since we spent time in Taiwan every year. Since she passed away there, she also had active health insurance and a death certificate from a hospital in Taiwan, but that’s probably not necessary as long as everything is translated and notarized.
My mother gave up her ROC passport, but she still was ROC citizen (with active HHR) at the time of my birth. In the meantime, however, her HHR expired.
The problem is I suppose it’s not so easy to have my mother renew her HHR if she isn’t even Taiwan citizen right now.
That’s tricky. Did your parent renounce Taiwanese citizenship or did she simply let her passport expire? If she let it expire, it’s easy to renew, and then she could start the process to regain a hukou. If she renounced citizenship, I’m not sure you can get it through her anymore…
She can, but it’s more complicated. That’s why I initially planned to avoid this.
In hindsight, I think I didn’t present my case well enough to the NIA. They always showed me the regulations for applying with “有直系血親、配偶、兄弟姊妹或配偶之父母現在在臺灣地區設有戶籍”.
I plan to print out everything regarding “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女，年齡在二十歲以上” and show that to them, perhaps they are more understanding then.
To put it shortly, my application is still being refused. They say that my mother would need an active household registration. We asked them to clarify these confusions:
There are two major requirements for NWOHRs to apply for a TARC, the first being “有直系血親、配偶、兄弟姊妹或配偶之父母現在在臺灣地區設有戶籍” and the second being “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女，年齡在二十歲以上” (c.f. first document).
Why does the first reason includes “父母現在在臺灣地區設有戶籍” and the second only says “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國” (without a 現在)? They said even though the 現在 part is missing there, it still implies having an active household registration.
Next to the application requirement, there is this 身分 (second document) that applicants need to fulfill, let’s call this nature of application. There are again 2 major possibilities: AF353 “有直系血親在臺灣地區設有戶籍者” and AF384 “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女，年齡在二十歲以上” (note that this is basically the same as the application requirement from above). I asked them who normally uses AF384 to apply, and they said this is for applicants whose ROC parent passed away (but still had active household registration at the time of death). I then wanted to know where in the law is this requirement that the parent must be deceased to use this nature of application, but they avoided answering and just said that all other applicants use AF353 (usually).
I asked them what they think of this definition, found in the official Immigration Law about so-called “居住臺灣地區設有戶” (https://law.moj.gov.tw/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?PCode=D0080132): “指在臺灣地區設有戶籍，現在或原在臺灣地區居住之國民，且未依臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例喪失臺灣地區人民身分” and they said something along the lines of “even though this is the definition of 居住臺灣地區設有戶, the application requirement #2 still implies active household registration.” Which kind of boggles my mind because it clearly uses the term “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民”.
All in all, they often said that the law cannot be written very thoroughly (!?), and that even though the requirement text doesn’t use 現在, it does not mean it’s not implied.
In the end we asked them why two telephone calls to the NIA (from my mother and my aunt) both confirmed that only a 除戶藤本 was necessary, but they said that the workers which we talked with were probably wrong, and/or didn’t understand my situation fully.
Well, I’m at my wit’s end right now. In my opinion, I clearly fulfill “居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女，年齡在二十歲以上”, but they aren’t budging. I still want to find out the person who initially told us on the telephone that active HHR is not required (so we have the chance to clear misunderstandings, if there were any), but in the meantime, do you know any other ways that I could try?
I remember some bureaus have some kind of “write to the director,” i.e. like a complaint box or something like that,1 but I don’t remember the name right now. I want to ask why only applicants with deceased ROC parents can use application AF384, which seems somewhat arbitrary.
Sending a mail to the 署長信箱. That might be something like a template reply with relevant regulations from someone in a relevant division, but at least you will get something written on your case.
Getting a written rejection from them, then submit an appeal
Is there any division that people can ask about laws in judicial department?
Thanks for the hint, I’ll try to get a response on what legal grounds they reject my submission.
In the meantime, @multipass you mentioned that people got hung up on that “之子女” part, and that you and your cousin went to the NIA to confirm that “this option refers to a child born abroad to a Taiwan national with household registration who has household registration at the time of birth, regardless of not maintaining it later.”
Do you perhaps have some hints how I could make my arguments similarly? I got the feeling that the clerk also just dismissed the “in the past” aspect. Could also be my Chinese not being sufficient enough, of course. Do you remember who exactly from the NIA gave you the confirmation?
).