And you think that he personally handled her case? He’s a president not superman.
Whether or not she should come in my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with “sticking it to the man”. For six pages the forumosans that support the DPP on this site (an assumption, hope no one will be offended) has argued that this is not about sticking it to them, their arguments have been that Taiwan is a free democratic country and as such they should allow her to come. This argument I think is very sound and I agree with it, but reminding China that they are not the masters of the world :eh: where did that come from, that I don’t agree with.
No, but he would also have been aware of the request. There is no reason to bar her as a threat to Taiwanese security, etc, so any reason to refuse the visa would be due to fears about China sulking. That makes it a far more important decision that the President should make sure is dealt with in a way he thinks is best. You don’t have officials make what is in some respects a foreign policy decision, and I’m sure no one would take it on themselves to refuse someone like Kadeer without having been told what to do by one of the big bosses.
It was my own view. Perhaps a line space would have helped.
I think that China increasingly thinks that it is boss, especially when it comes to Taiwan. So whilst I would agree that Taiwan should make decisions based on its own laws and not worry about what China thinks, sometimes doing the opposite of what it wants could help make it less pushy.
Don’t be fallacious. Taiwan doesn’t need to be called a SAR, officially. If we can’t even screen a movie without worrying about China, not make any major decisions without consulting China, not even rescue our own citizens without consulting China first…
…then for all intents and purposes we are “Taiwan SAR, China”.
Something which the UNPO condemned and demanded he be released. Isa has German citizenship. Only China’s unfounded accusations were the source of it. Is anyone (outside of Beijing) PRAISING South Korea for this decision?
Where was the review committee that reviewed this case? And in the unlikely event that it was convened, were its proceedings public?
Given the KMT’s long record of denying visas to foreigners it disliked, the Ma administration has a special responsibility to grant visas in all but the most extraordinary circumstances.
By allowing Beijing to dictate at such an early stage what movies Taiwan can watch and who can visit Taiwan, the Ma administration is actually harming its own cause because it confirms for independent voters what the pro-Taiwan faction has always maintained: that Ma’s ‘friendly relations’ with China are cover for first reducing Taiwan to being a client state of China and then finally subsuming it into China.
Other than sabotaging relations with China, Kadeer’s visit will give Taiwanese another view on what living under China’s rule is really like for peoples with a different history and ethnicity. Exchanges with the Tibetan movement in exile have also been important for the same reason in that they have helped widen the views and sharpen the arguments of the independence movement.
It’s a real shame that people from free societies would condone this kind of behavior from the Ma administration. Then again, back in the old bad days there were always a few crackpot foreigners who would tell you how great the KMT was and how Taiwan wasn’t ‘ready’ for democracy or free speech.
The case was reviewed by the National Immigration Agency. There is no requirement that their proceedings be made public. Do other countries hold public proceedings on similar matters? In the UK at least, similar decisions are simply made by the Home Secretary.
No it clearly doesn’t have any “special responsibility to grant visas in all but the most extraordinary circumstances.” How does that claim logically follow from the KMT’s “long record of denying visas to foreigners it disliked”?
No, denying a visa is no evidence that Taiwan is becoming a “client state” of China, or that it will be finally subsumed into China. South Korea and India also both denied visas to members of the World Uighur Conference. The United States does not grant visas to senior ROC officials. Like Taiwan, they want to maintain “friendly relations” with China.
And why are only Taiwan independence supporters “pro-Taiwan”? Does that mean everyone else is “anti-Taiwan”?
No, all it would do is sabotage relations with China. There are plenty of sources of information on Tibet and Xinjiang available in Taiwan for anyone who is interested in the current situation. There are also many Tibetan and Uighur people living in Taiwan.
This whole situation was drummed up by the Freddy GUTS Taiwan clique to embarrass the government. There as no other reason to invite Kadeer to Taiwan. Unfortunately to MOI then rather embarrassingly claimed that Kadeer had links with terrorism as a reason for denying entry. It should simply have said “political sensitivities”, which was the real reason.
You admit that allowing Kadeer to visit would sabotage relations with China. How can this be a good thing for Taiwan? Is this what being a member of the “pro-Taiwan” community means?
Free societies routinely deny people entry for any number of reasons. You seem to be holding Taiwan to higher standards of freedom than exist in other democratic countries.
Marvelous, you’ve never explained how this will hurt Taiwan. Beijing says this and the KMT say this but what concrete actions will result and are they enough to care about?
You’ve never said how it would help Taiwan.
I tried to explain how it could hurt Taiwan here:
Feiren said that the invitation could “sabotage” cross-straits relations.
I’m sure relations could survive one visit from Kadeer, just like they did a visit from the Dalai Lama. But if visits from Tibet and Xinjiang independence activists became a regular thing, this would certainly harm relations. If Kadeer was given a visa, a precedent would be set, and Freddy could invite independence leaders everytime he felt like stirring up some trouble.
Where the KMT really screwed up was when Jiang Yi-hua implied a link between Kadeer and terrorism. There is no evidence for this.
Visitors visas are to be issued so that people can visit. There is no expectation that visitors will “help” Taiwan other than maybe spending some money. Having to “justify” visitors is a way to give the government a right to ban people for party political, not security, reasons.
So what’s next - banning independence politics? That “antagonizes” the Chinese even more. Why bother blocking a person like Kadeer visiting if Taiwan is going to do something that pisses off the fenqing way more? The fact is Chinese nationalists will never be satisfied until all non-unification politicians are banned and a unification roadmap approved that makes it inevitable, either formally or effectively by making Taiwanese politicians Beijing’s puppets.
The reason countries like South Korea sometimes don’t let people like Kadeer in is that they’re rare occasions that can hurt relations with China. Doesn’t mean they should do but at least they get more for blocking the decision. With Taiwan the island’s very existance as an independent state is the problem. Today some fenqing will be satisfied - tomorrow they will be angry again.
So you think the Dalai Lama will be invited next year? According to you the KMT have set a precedent and now they have to let him in all the time.
Don’t be so silly. She’d visit once and that would be it. If she was invited again for no good reason, then the government can say the piss was being taken. You cross a bridge when you come to it.
I have said utlity is not an issue when it comes to granting a visa. What utlity does my parents visit bring to Taiwan? The law states the conditions that might be invoked to deny a visa. I disagree they are valid in this case. You agree. So what harm do you see coming out of this visit?
If somebody wants to anger China, then I think they’re doing it for roughly similar reasons to the reasons Dr. King had for wanting to anger Bull Connor. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor )
But I doubt that that’s the main idea, if there is a main idea. If there’s any kind of plan at work, then I think it’s that somebody is mainly looking to get “brushstrokes” out of the KMT. I think somebody figures, “A brushstroke here, another one there, and another, and if we can get enough brushstrokes, a picture will form that most people can see.”
Whether the above plan will work is another matter. But that’s what I think the plan is–again, if there is one.
So you are saying that leaders may be forced to take actions.
What actions? I need details so I can judge if they are serious enough to justify denying a visa. If actions involve no more than a sharply worded rebuke, then who cares? If it involves a missile attack then yes I would say we need to be cautious.
So what concretely will happen in your mind that is serious enough to justify denying a visa?
Of course worsening relations could have many concrete repucussions, including further squeezing of Taiwan’s international space, closing of the three links, restrictions on investment, verbal threats, missile practices etc etc…
Obvisually the cross-straits relationship is very sensitive, it needs handling carefully…
Given that possibility, why get closer to China to the point where we are so economically tied that they have even more leverage over us? That is what I don’t understand about your position. If you think China has this leverage over us already, then why get closer?
By all means work on diplomacy but expanding trade and investment seems lunacy. No one hands the keys over to their enemy and yet that is what Ma is doing. With your apparent approval.
No I don’t believe there is any evidence he is doing that. He was elected on a platform of improving relations with China, and that’s what he is doing. To improve relations you have to be aware of Beijing’s sensitivities.
But there is always the suspicion of what he might do in the future. I guess that’s unavoidable.
You don’t get what I am saying. He is attemtping to make Taiwan’s economy more and more dependent on China’s. He has stated over and over again that China is our economic savior. Now you may not know that pretty much all major industries in China must by law be dominated by state run enterprises. The economy of China has gotten less open and free under Hu. So, we are tying our economy to one that is largely controlled by the CCP and all investment into taiwan will be heavily controlled. How is this not a problem especially when you have said that the CCP may retaliate if we do things they don’t like?
As you say:
So again, why pursue closer economic ties when such ties give the CCP more leverage over us? Most sane countries avoid doing business with those who are unstable and threaten to cut of trade for petty reasons.