I agree with a recount. I would have agreed if the KMT had won by 0.02% as well. I mean they did it in the States. It’s the right thing to do. It does seem that they should have postponed the vote as well after the shooting. I think the shooting was staged.
Hind sight is 20/20. I bet lien wishes he said something on friday.
I’d like to see a recount and I’d be interested in seeing the discounted votes. It would be interesting if the votes discounted were for lien or chen.
Ski
hello? they DIDN’T do it in the states, get your facts straight.
do you have a tv? turn it on. if you think that was staged you should have your head examined.
[quote=“daltongang”]hello? they DIDN’T do it in the states, get your facts straight.
do you have a tv? turn it on. if you think that was staged you should have your head examined.[/quote]
Did we say it was staged? Yep…he did. It’s a convienent thing isn’t it.
They didn’t do a recount in Florida? Silly me. I did a yahoo search. Only
194,000 hits about the florida Recount. Strange Yahoo knows about it. Why don’t you check you internet connection. Putz!
Presidential candidate totals change as Florida recounts votes
State to resume process Thursday morning
November 9, 2000
Web posted at: 1:59 a.m. EST (0659 GMT)
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) – Florida on Wednesday began a judicious process of recounting every presidential ballot cast statewide, as Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush cautiously predicted the recount would bring him the victory he tasted for just a few short moments on Election Night.
I support a recount, but Lien is asking for more than that - he wants to nullify the election. I strongly disagree with Lien’s action right after the results - while it is his right to ask for a recount, that’s a process that should be left to the court and he should not incite the crowd. Now he is giving a speech today and they are planning a mass rally tomorrow asking the election to be nullified - that is disrespecting the democratic process and it is a huge insult to the half of the citizens who voted for chen. Again, it is Lien’s right to ask for recount, but he should not attempt to create a riot that will destabilize Taiwan’s society. He should make his request peacefully, because what he has done now is a huge blow to the stock market comes monday and this is bound to create uncertaintly for the financial market for the next few months. By asking for nullification of the election through public rallies, it intensifies the divide among Taiwan’s people.
Wasn’t he the one who kept talking about how everyone needs to come together? He is now doing the exact opposite and it is tearing Taiwan apart.
I’m afraid that even if they recount the votes 5 billion times and chen still wins, Lien and co will still insists this election is “unfair” and should be nullified, and this will continue to drag on for months, especially now he has made his supporters strongly believes that is the case.
I agree with you Jonathan. Lien’s grandstanding really has made a peaceful end to this difficult to imagine. There was violence last night, but fortunately police were able to maintain control in both Taichung and Kaohsiung. Tonight? Tomorrow night? When the High Court annouces that Chen did win, what will happen then.
Needless to say I am a little nervous about this. My family stateside is more nervous about it than I am.
[quote=“jonathan”] He is now doing the exact opposite and it is tearing Taiwan apart.
[/quote]
Yes, exactly, this could be a civil war that tears the island apart forever. (The Taiwan Civil War, 2004 - ?)
Being a bit alarmist at this point, now, aren’t we? Frankly, as bad as things are on the streets in places, things could be much, much worse.
I agree. I’m already sick of all of the election talk. I have serious questions about the fairness of the election, but at the same time I also think Lian’s remarks immediately following were completely unnecessary, disrespectful, and not in the best interests of Taiwan. However, people just need to chill and let the legal process play out. This is a very good test of the democratic system in Taiwan, and so far it’s going fine … a little bumpy, but still fine. Many other places I can think of would have already broken out into civil war with mass killings, fires, etc. Taiwan is doing ok I think. If we’re going to worry about anything it’s not whether or not Taiwan can work through this problem, but how the mainland is going to react.
Regarding the recount in Florida 2000. They started a recount, but the secretary of state gave a deadline for revised ballots and certified results when the deadline was reached, even though only a few precincts had completed a recount. The supreme court ruled that the certified results of the election would stand, making Bush the winner. This is part of the reason that recount was so controversial.
I support a recount for races with less than a 1% difference in the leading candidates. This is well under the predicted error rates for counting any kind of paper ballots, even discounting fraud or negligence. It is possible to get this error rate down with a methodical recount.
Unfortunately, procedures for dealing with this problems tend to be vague, varying, and subject for debate, leaving people to make things up as they go along when it happens, which only further strains things. Democratic countries need to make clear, consistent rules ahead of time for how to deal with this sort of thing.
Absolutely. And if everybody ALSO got SARS, then the island would be ripped apart AND dead! Expect the worst, for it will surely happen! This is the big one people! Listen to formosa/lane119! 
You big moron.
I have posted this story in another thread, a no-no I am aware, but it bears repeating.
The higher number of spoiled ballots has an origin.
A recount is only legal if malfeasance was found. None has been or theorized. Sorry, “It wasn’t fair” doesn’t cut the mustard.
Over 600 foreign journalist and 40 election overseers from overseas were here; time to move on and accept the results.
[quote]GROUP ASKS PEOPLE TO CAST INVALID BALLOTS IN PROTEST
2004-03-17 23:02:50
Taipei, March 17 (CNA) An private group urging people to cast invalid votes in the forthcoming presidential election staged a protest between the campaign headquarters of the two candidates in the race Wednesday in Taipei.
The "Millions for Invalid Votes Union" blamed the two candidates
for ignoring the public desire for a fair and just society.
Cheng Chun-chi, a leader of the union, said both candidates and the political forces they reflect in the race are "rotten apples, " with voters being forced to choose between them. Whoever wins will be a loss for the public, Cheng said.
In the protest, 10 members of the union, with five dressed in green, the color of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party, and five dressed in blue, the color of the opposition Kuomintang and People First Party, moved a chain made of 100 rotten apples between the two candidates' campaign headquarters which is 3.5 kilometers apart.
Beginning at 9 a.m. Wednesday from the campaign headquarters of President Chen Shui-bian, Cheng said the protest will last for 26 hours until 11 a.m. Thursday when the rotten apple chain arrives at the campaign headquarters of the other candidate, Lien Chan. A total of 120 union members will take part in the protest and move the chain in shifts.
By this protest, Cheng said his group wants to inspire public sympathy for their cause and cast invalid ballots in the election. [/quote]Thanks Jlick! I guess we see how far your knowledge of it goes Ski. Can you say Google? hehehe
Back to the topic. I agree that there should be a recount. However, it should be done according to law. Is there a provision for a recount in the Taiwan election law. I understand that regardless, President Chen doesn’t have the authority to order it, that is why Lien is resorting to the courts. If he resorted to the courts to get a full recount and dispensed with the histrionics, I could actually respect him a little. As it is, I think he is a despicable creep.
I disagree. A recount under the current circumstances, where one party accuses the winners of cheating without any evidence, is not called for.
I don’t. On what grounds? Because it was close? This would be an interesting framework to apply to the upcoming Olympic Games.
“God! That 10,000 meters race was really close. Let’s run it again to make sure.”
Please…
I don’t. On what grounds? Because it was close? This would be an interesting framework to apply to the upcoming Olympic Games.
“God! That 10,000 meters race was really close. Let’s run it again to make sure.”
Please… [/quote]They don’t run them again, they look at the photo finish to get a better measurement.
I don’t see any point in having the election again, but a recount might shut some people up if the result is the same, and it is common practice in other countries when the result is close.
I don’t. On what grounds? Because it was close? This would be an interesting framework to apply to the upcoming Olympic Games.
“God! That 10,000 meters race was really close. Let’s run it again to make sure.”
Please… [/quote]
The spokesman from the Central Election Committee last night said that the law called for a recount if the margin was less than 33,000 votes … which it was. Why do you disagree with Taiwan following its own laws, Wolf? I thought this was supposed to be about the “democratic process” … of which this is one part. Lian’s reaction was inappropriate, but the request for a recount is not only reasonable, but it’s the law (at least as far as the dude from the CEC said).
Can we verify this? Aside from some states in the US.
[quote=“daltongang”]
I disagree. A recount under the current circumstances, where one party accuses the winners of cheating without any evidence, is not called for.[/quote]
In the US, many states have madatory recounts if the margin is less than .5 percent or less than one percent. Why? Because counting is not perfect. I agree that they way the votes are counted in Taiwan makes any significant mistakes highly unlikely, however, but when the margin is only .22 percent, a recount, NOT a revote, is entirely called for.