Recount, the right thing to do

I nearly spilled my coffee when I read that - recount only the DPP ballots?

However, after thinking through it, it suddenly made complete sense to me.

Firstly, the KMT guys are not idiots. They know that a recount will with a very high degree of certainty show that Chen won. Therefore, an actual recount is not in their favor - but the threat of one is.

Making silly demands like this is therefore a way to be seen as the guys cheated out of a recount, while at the same time do what they can to stall one.

Pretty interesting but dangerous path - what happens if they get the recount they claim to want, and it still shows that they lost?

Lots of eggs to remove, one presume, but they will come up with something more hare-brained.

An op-ed piece under the name of Lien Chan in the International Herald Tribune:

[quote]Taiwan vote: We need a recount and an inquiry
Lien Chan IHT
Thursday, April 1, 2004
Taiwan vote

TAIPEI Until the presidential election on March 20, Taiwan had prided itself on achieving a prosperous economy and a functioning democracy. Indeed, Taiwan served as a prime example of modernization theory: political democracy following economic growth.

But since the vote tallies were announced, Taiwan’s democracy has been called into question. The electoral result was decided by two-tenths of one percent out of a turnout of more than 13 million voters. Since then, tens of thousands of people have gathered in front of the presidential building to show their dissatisfaction with the electoral process.

This round-the-clock demonstration dramatizes the deep divisions in Taiwan’s society. People who voted for the incumbent party feel subdued - why can’t they celebrate the victory? People who voted for the opposition feel angry and betrayed.

Even in the eye of this storm, my mind is lucid and clear. I know what I am fighting for. I am fighting for democracy. It is not about my winning or losing the election.

This election was particularly marred by voting irregularities and a mysterious assassination attempt on President Chen Shui-bian and Vice President Annette Lu on March 19, just hours before balloting time. Most unusually, both were shot at but both walked away with only very minor injuries.

The best way to redress voting irregularities is to have a recount. Progress toward this has been very limited. The court has ordered all ballot boxes sealed, but the opposition and incumbent parties have failed to reach an agreement on the recounting method.

The opposition wants a judicial and total recount. Judicial because the opposition wants the recount panels to be presided over by judges. Total because the opposition has found irregularities in voting activities in many locations.

The incumbent party disagrees and argues for an administrative recount - those who counted the votes on March 20 would do the recounting as well. This is no different than having the player act as the referee. The incumbent party also calls for a recount only of specific ballot boxes.

I have always maintained that if the recount is fair (operationally defined as a judge-refereed recount) and on a full scale, I will abide by the result.

Regarding the mysterious assassination attempt, the opposition demands an independent panel to investigate the matter. The assassination attempt was a singularly decisive factor that influenced people’s voting behavior. There is a litany of unanswered questions surrounding the incident. Evidence presented by government agencies seems to raise more questions than answers.

A related question is the number of military and police personnel who were kept from casting their ballots as the result of the so-called “national security mechanism” activated by the government in the immediate wake of the attack on the president. In the past, nearly all the military and police personnel, totaling nearly half a million people, voted in every election.

The government first provided a figure of 13,000 servicemen who were prevented from voting. The figure was later revised up by the Ministry of Defense to 37,000. We believe there were more, perhaps 200,000 men and women. The issue here is illegally depriving these people of the right to vote.

Our demands for a judicial and total recount as well as an independent investigation panel are issues of transparency. A democratic government’s legitimacy is based on its transparency. This is what I am striving for.

Taiwan has come a long way on the path to democratization. Unfortunately it is being overshadowed by large clouds of secrecy, manipulation and distrust. If they are not cleared away, Taiwan’s democracy will be severely tainted, threatening not only its internal unity, but also external security.

I am in favor of a transparent democracy. Once it is achieved, I’m sure reconciliation and healing will be within reach.[/quote]

The bio line contains a good example of the difficulties that arise in describing Taiwan’s political situation.

“The Taiwanese Nationalist Party”?! :noway: Although from some perspectives it could be considered correct, it is far more incorrect.

Lien wrote: “People who voted for the incumbent party feel subdued - why can’t they celebrate the victory?”

I think Lien knows perfectly well why. What a dissembler he and his ghostwriter are!

[quote=“cranky laowai”]An op-ed piece under the name of Lien Chan in the International Herald Tribune
[/quote]
At least he’s modest - doesn’t take credit for a lot of what he’s done! I took the liberty of editing the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs to correct this:

Reads much better like that :laughing:

Mr He wrote:

Ditto, my jaw dropped.

A recount of ONLY ONE side of the votes? This has to be the most whacked thing any losing political party has ever proposed for a situation like this. Next they will propose a revote but only for those who voted for Chen/Lu, the rest of the people stay home and we’ll just keep those votes thank you very much.

Interesting theory Mr. He and probably the most likely motive behind this. They can feel it slipping away and will grasp at anything.

[quote=“daasgrrl”]From the front page of the Taipei Times today, April 2:

[quote]KMT-PFP alliance wants to examime only ballots cast in favor of Chen, Lu

The pan-blue camp will ask judges to examine and recount only the valid ballots cast in favor of President Chen Shui-bian and Annette Lu, the opposition parties said yesterday.

In response to the pan-blue camp’s request, one of the lawyers representing the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), Wellington Koo, said yesterday the DPP will ask for a recount of all the votes.
[/quote][/quote]

Would you look at that!

Wellington Koo is one of my bosses. Our firm has very close ties to the DPP (one of our senior/founding partners was appointed to the post of Secretary General of the Judicial Yuan). But, what I wish to point out to some of you folks is that Wellington Koo is a… waishengren :astonished: His parents are Shanghainese.

it’s not too dissimilar from what gore did. instead of asking for a full recount, gore was pushing for a recount of counties that he lost. i was pulling for gore at the time, but he totally lost the moral high ground with that bone-headed move.

i think this pan-blue request will be the thing that convinces the foreign press that this whole dust-up was just a bunch of sore losers causing trouble. there’s no way they can report that and still portray the pan-blues as “victims”.

If they’re American reporters and Democrats, they might not see anything wrong with the KMT request and they thus very well see the KMT losers as “victims”… :wink:

[quote=“tigerman”][quote=“daasgrrl”]From the front page of the Taipei Times today, April 2:

[quote]KMT-PFP alliance wants to examime only ballots cast in favor of Chen, Lu

The pan-blue camp will ask judges to examine and recount only the valid ballots cast in favor of President Chen Shui-bian and Annette Lu, the opposition parties said yesterday.

In response to the pan-blue camp’s request, one of the lawyers representing the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), Wellington Koo, said yesterday the DPP will ask for a recount of all the votes.
[/quote][/quote]

Would you look at that!

Wellington Koo is one of my bosses. Our firm has very close ties to the DPP (one of our senior/founding partners was appointed to the post of Secretary General of the Judicial Yuan). But, what I wish to point out to some of you folks is that Wellington Koo is a… waishengren :astonished: His parents are Shanghainese.[/quote]

Any relation to this Wellington Koo? A relative I suppose.

c250.columbia.edu/c250_celebrate … n_koo.html

[quote]
This election was particularly marred by voting irregularities and a mysterious assassination attempt on President Chen Shui-bian and Vice President Annette Lu on March 19[/quote]

Is that the first time since the election that he’s refered to A-Bian as the president? All I’ve heard for some time now is the denial implicit in “Mr. Chen Shui-bian”… The line about the incumbents celebrating their victory (or not) also sounds out of whack with the current line of rhetoric and makes me wonder who wrote this, or who translated it.

[quote=“Chewycorns”][Any relation to this Wellington Koo? A relative I suppose.

c250.columbia.edu/c250_celebrate … n_koo.html[/quote]

I don’t know. I’ll ask him. Our Wellington Koo is an NYU grad.

[quote=“daasgrrl”]From the front page of the Taipei Times today, April 2:

[quote]KMT-PFP alliance wants to examime only ballots cast in favor of Chen, Lu

The pan-blue camp will ask judges to examine and recount only the valid ballots cast in favor of President Chen Shui-bian and Annette Lu, the opposition parties said yesterday.

In response to the pan-blue camp’s request, one of the lawyers representing the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), Wellington Koo, said yesterday the DPP will ask for a recount of all the votes.
[/quote]

Now, is this an April Fool’s joke gone horribly wrong… or is this for real? It’s really getting hard to tell around here :unamused: :laughing:[/quote]

Coming from the KMT, it doesn’t surprise me one bit.

How does this relate to the KMT’s efforts:

  1. to only recount DPP votes (that’s not ‘on a full scale’)
  2. to put in a lawsuit to demand a new election (not abiding by the result of the recount)
    As far as I know, this is also the first time he has explicitly and publically said he will abide by the result of the recount - odds on him keeping his promise?

This may be fuel on the fire, and I don’t know how true this is, but going back to my reference on possible voting irregularities:

The following comes from an email address from domain kmt.org.tw, though the website does not seem to contain the same release:

For Immediate Release

International Center
Lien-Soong Campaign Headquarters
April 1, 2004, 18: 20

93040103


Six Solid Examples of Irregularities
in Contravention of Central Election Commission Regulations:

  1.  The final tally of persons cast the ballot at the polling station No.157 at Banquiao City in Taipei County exceeds by ten plus more than the number counted by Pan Blue representative at the station.
    
  2.  A voter at polling station No.71 in Banqiao City, Taipei County found that when the ballot was given to him, it had already been marked for Candidate No. One (DPP ticket).
    
  3.  At polling station No.1188 in Xindian City, Taipei County, an invalid ballot was recorded as valid for No.One Candidate.
    
  4.  At polling station No.2043 in Bali, Taipei County, a voter was given two ballots.
    
  5.  At the polling station set up in the Loli elementary school in Tucheng, Taipei County, an invalid ballot for No.One Candidate was counted as valid and an valid ballot for No.Two Candidate (Pan Blue ticket) was recorded under No.One Candidate.
    
  6.  The superintendent of the polling station set up at the Houde elementary school, in San-tsung city, Taipei County, took 95 blank ballots home against the regulation that unused ballots should be sealed and deposited at the guarded warehouse designated by the court order.
    

One cannot be sure how many such irregular cases have also happened elsewhere.

[quote=“shimmers”]Six Solid Examples of Irregularities
in Contravention of Central Election Commission Regulations[/quote]

They forgot to add this one:

  1. And one old lady who our people would swear looked like just the sort of person who would support Chen and Lu was seen to have a shifty look on her face when she left Polling Station No. 8453 in Tutushan, Yunlin County, giving rise to clear suspicion that she had probably been up to some dirty trick that unfairly deprived us of victory in the election.

:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

I don’t understand the application of counting only Chen/Lu votes. Even if that sort of recount showed Chen with 29,518 fewer votes (the margin of victory), one would have to go through the Lien/Soong votes to see if similar changes had taken place (spoiled ballots and the like).
It’s like having a close horse race and then saying that you want the winner to run again – ALONE – to see if he really won the first time.
I would call on Mr. Lien, a political science degree holder, to explain the nature and give precedence for this.

Who should pay for the recount?

KMT says DDP should pay, govt should pay.

DPP says KMT should pay, since DPP are the ones being sued.

Tit for tat. They five days to decide.

I would guess that the ROC govt should pay for the recount, out of public coffers, since this impacts whole nation. Nothing wrong with govt paying. USa assumed payments in Gore recount. Why not ROC govt?

ALthough I ‘‘voted’’ for DPP and will do so again (even though i cannot votem hehe).

Just seems logical for govt to pay for recount. What the hell! It’s a public service.

but I aint a lawyer. what do the lawyers say?

[quote=“shimmers”]Six Solid Examples of Irregularities
in Contravention of Central Election Commission Regulations[/quote]
Most of these simply raise the questions “Then what was done?” and “How do they know?”

I’m still waiting to see evidence of the “more than 1,000” election irregularities that pan-blue officials have said existed. Really, is this the best they have to offer?

Simple. Set conditions the govt. can not reasonably or legally meet, and then charge with them with obstruction, stalling… whatever it takes to keep the protesters riled up.

I ended up with the China post this afternoon, as I had already read the TT in the morning.

They claimed in the editorial that chen was unfit to lead without giving any reasons for it.