That’s what I thought. Surely if you can prove that the property is yours, and you take it back, you’re not actually stealing anything. By definition, theft must involve taking somebody else’s property. Even in Taiwan. Although, presented with that little logical conundrum, you can imagine this happening in the courtroom …
The reason you have police and courts is so that people do not become vigilantes. Having papers showing that you onced owned certain things does not prove you own it now.
As the goods have been reported stolen and insurance paid then the ownership of the property would then fall to the insurance company to follow up on. Just going to the place and taking things would yes mean you are stealing them.
Oh, sure … I wasn’t suggesting he should. Obviously if the insurance company are on the case, he should let them do their thing. I was just wondering out loud whether it is legally possible to steal something that belongs to you (even cross-border). There was an article on the interweb a while back about some American girl who saw her stolen bike advertised on craigslist. She turned up as a ‘buyer’, asked to give it a test-drive, and pedalled off on it. The police just told her not to take risks, but there were no charges (not against her, anyway). I understand car-leasing companies do exactly this as a matter of routine: if fees are not paid, someone turns up with the keys and drives it away.
It most certainly does, at least if the putative “new” owner has nothing to prove that he owns it. The entire concept of property ownership in the west is founded on nothing more concrete than a paper trail and conventions for exchanging that paper. Paper deeds are exchanged for paper money. How would you prove you own your house or your car?
The reason you have police and courts is so that people do not become vigilantes. Having papers showing that you onced owned certain things does not prove you own it now.
As the goods have been reported stolen and insurance paid then the ownership of the property would then fall to the insurance company to follow up on. Just going to the place and taking things would yes mean you are stealing them.[/quote]
Thanks for the headsup TM. I haven’t done much research into Taiwan treaties (it being a special case and not a “properly recognized country”)
You as the owner can prove chain of title, but he, as borrower, cannot. that is where having the right papers count.
and to joschka, extradition and money judgment or rather, replevin, are 2 different things. Tomas was asking about replevin (or in lieu, money judgment) of the property ie not criminal charges, jailtime etc. hence the title.
You’re welcome, Jack!
As you might imagine, we spend a lot of time advising people re this matter, as it comes up frequently.
Why don’t you give the court in Taipei a ring and ask them what they think? Both legally and on what would happen if you just rented it and took it home. That might help you decide on your next step.
Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.
Read yesterday about a young mother who went to bout 100feet to a neighboring row house in the UK and asked the people there to turn down their music. She was stabbed and died of her wounds. Motto: Call the police and file a complaint, dont go there and solve it yourself. Let the police go there and let’s see if they get attacked like she did.
I concur in this case that Tomas will remain a lot healthier if he lets the insurance company work on this and not snoop around on his own on criminal elements.
Criminal elements are not widely known for their upstanding conduct.
Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.[/quote]
waste of time… it’s like asking a Chinese for directions when he doesn’t know the answer.
Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.[/quote]
waste of time… it’s like asking a Chinese for directions when he doesn’t know the answer.[/quote]
ya, talk for a fucking hour to tell you too turn right at the next intersection. And you wonder why everyone wants to learn Engerish.
How’s your English doing? Seem’s like you’re getting to grips with it fairly well now.
The downside of this is that they probably wouldn’t seize any property, therefore allowing the scrotum to get rid of it and remove the evidence. The arrival of then police will just alert him to the fact that someone is on to his case.
It seems that there are several people who wrongly assume that (1) I am asking on my own behalf and (2) I am planning some kind of stealth operation. Allow me to clarify:
- I am inquiring on behalf of a friend. This is not a fake friend, it isn’t me.
- I am not personally planning to take any action. I am simply inquiring on behalf of a friend.
- My friend will not attempt anything dangerous or illegal. He wants to use a legal process to recover the equipment. If the thief gets what is coming to him through purely legal means, that is a bonus.
I’ve already turned him on to the thread and he really appreciates the helpful responses he’s gotten from many of the posters. He is checking with his insurance provider now.
I seriously think that a frendly chat with the police about your options isn’t a bad idea. Maybe the courts won’t be so good, but the police around here are happy to let you know the legalities of something and the likelihood that you’ll get away with it.
You’re joking, right? 
Because if you are not, this is some seriously very bad advice. 
Fortunately, Tomas is, and his friend likely is, too, far too smart to even consider this.
You’re joking, right?
Because if you are not, this is some seriously very bad advice.
Fortunately, Tomas is, and his friend likely is, too, far too smart to even consider this.[/quote]
+ 1 on this
You’re joking, right?
Because if you are not, this is some seriously very bad advice.
Fortunately, Tomas is, and his friend likely is, too, far too smart to even consider this.[/quote]
Thank you.
I know this poster is trying to be helpful but she still can’t get it through her head that I am not the one who was ripped off, and I’m not planning to personally take any action.
And you guys can’t get it through YOUR heads that I’m not telling you to ask the police how to steal the damn things back. I’m sorry OP, you were perfectly polite in your post. The police really aren’t as incompetent as people make out, and having chats with people is how things are done in Taiwan.
Just go and chat with them, explain the situation and ask what normally happens in cases like this. Guarantee you they’d have seen similar things before and can recall a few ‘Oh, this guy did this and they sued him for this, and this guy stole it back but we never had any proof, and this guy did this…’ anecdotes which might end up being useful references.
Or, you know, they might actually know their jobs and refer you to the appropriate section of the law and office at the courthouse that can help you.
Just rock up to the desk and ask whoever doesn’t look busy. Don’t bother making it formal with an appointment. They might be useful and they might not be, but they’ll probably be a damnsight more useful than here. The only good advice I’ve seen in this thread so far is ‘let the insurance handle it,’ but they probably won’t do anything because they’ve already paid the case and it would be too much hassle to persue it overseas.
If you don’t speak Chinese, find someone who does to talk to them. It’s very hard to be competent and helpful in a language you can’t really use or understand; I find I meet 1 incompetent person out of 20 in most government offices whereas most of the flob makes it sound like 18 out of 20 government workers don’t know their arse from their left hand.