Recruiting Kids to "Ferret out" Copyright Infringers

[quote]Copy write infringement isn

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“beatnikmao”]For anyone interested in a good article on ImaniOU’s points about the BSA’s use of scare tactics in schools, check out:

dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/ … .html?pn=1[/quote]

I don’t see the connection of this to imaniou’s points.[/quote]

If they said, “But if you push our anti-pirating program in your schools we will give you the licenses for those programs for free and drop the case” then I could see the connection. It shows that Microsoft et al have very little interest in helping schools in need unless they can make some money off it. The fact that they threw the school systems lack of money into their face was a form of threat and how they are continuing to pursue them to the point of bankrupting the district over someone installing multiple copies of one of their programs using the same disk shows that they have little respect for the children and teachers of those schools. It’s all disgusting. The article just illustrates how they can use their corporate muscles to bully schools into doing what they want either through rewards (like I proposed) or by threats (like beatnikmao’s link).

[quote=“ImaniOU”]

If they said, “But if you push our anti-pirating program in your schools we will give you the licenses for those programs for free and drop the case” then I could see the connection.[/quote]

fair enough, but that’s a big if.

I have little sympathy for the school in question. THEY BROKE THE LAW. I have sympathy for their lack of funds, however these companies are only looking to protect their rights under the law. Not exactly big brother. Also note they demanded only that the schools make an audit. Considering they had in fact been using illegally copied software, this is a very reasonable demand. You make it sound like they were going to rip the schools money away. Note you said that they do provide a good deal of assistance to schools.

No, actually, the BSA did.

No, actually, the BSA did.

A demand to do the audit, and a reasonable one. if they don’t do it what are they supposed to do tickle them? rights under the law. A school does not have a right to break the law.

Here’s another interesting article on this subject of intellectual properties…

newyorker.com/PRINTABLE/?tal … surowiecki

Anyone find it ironic that Microsoft has been stealing ideas from other people for the whole time it was developing (simple example: the desktop of all windows programs developed after Windows 3.1 looking just like the Mac setup), but it’s determined to make sure that people don’t do multiple installations of a program or otherwise pirate their software and now wants to push their agenda on children?

One thing, at these “reasonable audits” They can charge up to $150,000 for every piece of software in violation. They originally licensing price goes back to the corporation and the BSA keeps the leftover.

No schools so do not have the right to break the law, but is this the way to deal with them? And going back to the original article, are these the people we want teaching children about copyright laws?

Here is another nice little article on how they work – recruiting those laid off to talk about non-compliance in their former companies.

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c … 07/bsa.DTL

The whole thing seems 1984-ish: kids turning in their parents and teachers, employees turning in employers, friends turning in friends…

Wait, didn’t Apple do a commercial along the lines of destroy Big Brother (IBM)? And exactly 20 years later we have the BSA.

We’ve gone from this:

To this:

dix2111,
Let me set your ass straight. It is stealing. Do you think you should be able to take the text out of one of my books, paste your stinking name on it and sell it? And the Benz example is right on the money.

I have to constantly beat heads here in Taiwan about this. Because the locals tend to be so dense they have trouble grasping ownership of intangibles. That seems to be too much for these simple Chinese materialistic brains. When I discuss intangible property with the locals (including many local legal professionals) I feel like I am talking to a none too bright caveman.

Typical discussion (well, actually I made it up, but it is almost true)
Taiwanese caveman: Ugh, Ugh, car is thing, woman is thing, thing hold in hand!
Me: IPR has to do with protecting things which have no physical reality but do have an economic value. When a person creates an idea, an image, a set of words; they are his property and must be protected like any other property.
Taiwanese caveman (flips out and starts chimp like screaming) Ugh, ugh, no, no, noooooo, oh, oh,oh, only can steal things, (then starts jumping up and down like he is trying to grab ideas, words, images out of thin air). No in hand, no protect, steal okay. Microsoft Bad…

Then I have to decide whether to laugh, cry or shoot the dimwitted creature. Since often the person is a judge; I just laugh and when my patience comes back try again.

Part of the problem is that the locals are so lacking in anything that could be called creativity that protecting creative acts seems “weird” to them. Part of the problem is that stealing is an important part of modern Taiwanese culture.

Well enough Taiwanese social history.

It is theft, pure and simple.

take care,
Brian The Great IPR Educator

that would seem to be a question for the law. i don’t see how microsoft could protect its rights besides existing law.

the audit itself is reasonable. if you are found to have illegally copied software installed, why is such an audit not reasonable? the penalty may not be but ensuring that no copied software existed on your computers would seem to make it a moot point.

honestly, and i’m speaking as a parent, and particularly compared to some of the things i’ve seen on this thread, i wouldn’t have a problem with it.

[quote=“brianlkennedy”]dix2111,
Let me set your ass straight. It is stealing. Do you think you should be able to take the text out of one of my books, paste your stinking name on it and sell it?
It is theft, pure and simple.

take care,
Brian The Great IPR Educator[/quote]
A very touchy subject to say the least but I think this impacts musicians and software companies more than writers. If you are writing for a regular publication then you are going to get paid whether someone ‘steals’ your work or not. If you are a book writer, sure you might lose some sales but I think the average book buyer will buy your book, if they intented on doing so anyway, the average college student will copy as much as possible, and others will just pass your book around after they have read it. Once a book is out of print, at least for the U.S. market, having a second hand shop resell it doesn’t cut you out of any royalties right?
Personally, I think it’s a bad deal to try to get the big ‘boys’ like Microsoft, Stephen King, or Elton John to complain about IPR because they get no sympathy. How can I feel sorry for someone that makes millions yearly?
Whether you and I like it or not, poorer countries are not going to respect something like IPR.
A couple of personal question, if I may, how much do you worry about piracy affecting your income and how to calculate this loss?

Don

[quote=“ImaniOU”]Here’s another interesting article on this subject of intellectual properties…

newyorker.com/PRINTABLE/?tal … surowiecki

Anyone find it ironic that Microsoft has been stealing ideas from other people for the whole time it was developing (simple example: the desktop of all windows programs developed after Windows 3.1 looking just like the Mac setup), but it’s determined to make sure that people don’t do multiple installations of a program or otherwise pirate their software and now wants to push their agenda on children?[/quote]
And Apple stole the idea of a windowing system from Xerox Palo Alto Research Center’s “Star”, which cost US$10,000 back around 1980 and sold a few dozen machines, disappearing into history thereafter.

Big fat hairy deal.

My God! Frank Lloyd Wright stole the idea of houses from some primitive hut-dweller! How terrible!

Holy crap! Henry Ford stole the idea of the automobile from earlier companies! How awful!

Geez Louise! Gus stole the idea of creating a forum for expatriate discussions from escapeartist.com/ ! How revolting!

Yes, but the difference between all of them and Microsoft, is that they are not trying to ferret kids to rat on friends and family and to threaten entire school districts for sharing the very technology they themselves piggybacked or blatantly stole from others before them.

Vannyel,

Do you not understand a single concept that’s been presented here? You write “sure you might lose some sales” with a dismissive attitude like this sort of thievery should somehow be excused. And “If you are writing for a regular publication then you are going to get paid whether someone ‘steals’ your work or not.” is what kind of scenario? You mean a magazine or newspaper? That’s not what we’re talking about–they make their revenue from advertising. (And even then, YES–it CAN hurt them if people don’t compensate them for that. Publications go out of business every year.)

Many writers DON’T make the kind of money that Stephen King does. Most writers sell much less than he does–writers of textbooks, specialty topics, and more. Movie industry professionals and writers lose royalty payments. These are people who don’t have compensation in the millions. My previous employer has laid off people in hard times–and I know damned well that many of these people would still be working if people would simply pay for it.

When a work is out of print, then you go to a second-hand bookstore, or eBay, or any one of the dozens of legitimate sources for buying it. If the demand for a book is there the publishing company is more than happy to do another printing. When a book is sold part of the intrinsic value is that is has a potential for re-selling. THAT’s a part of the value. The publishing houses allow for this, as does the author. But here in Taiwan there are shops that specialize in the mass copying of textbook material. That means that nobody makes any money on it except for the morally bankrupt copier and purchaser.

ImaniOU,
If you have a problem with Microsoft then take it up with them. I’ve written my congressmen and signed petitiions about the anti-trust legistlation against them. Have you? Has everybody here done the same? Or is people getting free software the way to strike back? If the companys that you believe Microsoft stole from were still publishing their software, do you honestly think piracy would stop?

I know Taiwanese whose families members drive Mercedes Benz sedans, yet still claim that they can’t afford to buy legitimate copies of copyrighted works. I’ve worked for billion-dollar corporations that were using illegal copies of software. There are University students who scream about the cost of their textbooks, yet spend hours in Internet cafes blowing their money on Age of Empires.

Software companies are under NO OBLIGATION to give away their software. Do you see the hardware companies doing that? When’s the last time a school stole a PC and the computer company shrugged it off? Again–read my previous post. The schools DO have the money for this, but it’s the amount of funds they waste on bloated bureaucracy and insane purchasing procedures that are to blame.

[quote]People who make money off your copy write or patent should be made to suffer the financial consequences but should I go to prison for my bootleg copy of

personally, if there is no way that someone is going to protect their rights, i am not going to sweat it too much. my name is not elmer. by the same token, i would certainly expect people to protect their rights. enough said.

[quote]Quote:
People who make money off your copy write or patent should be made to suffer the financial consequences but should I go to prison for my bootleg copy of

[quote] what if i buy a "let’s go’ English book and make copies of a page in the work book for my students to use. assuming I didn’t use the book often and it was a one day English lesson. am i obligated to purchase a new book for a one time use.
I’m not being silly it’s a real question so please don’t yell at me.[/quote]
I think this falls in that gray area called ‘fair usage’ or some such concept.

Sorry but how exactly do you know for sure? Psychic?
Once you write something and are paid for it - magazine or newspaper, then it doesn’t make a damn to your income how much people ‘steal’ your article (unless you are trying to resell it to another market).
Yes, once your book is sold, people making illegal copies will impact your royalties. You talk about kids playing video games and not spending the money to buy a copy of the text book. Personally, I think a US$50 to US$100 (or more) price tag for a textbook is ridiculous.
Granted something needs to be done to protect IPR but something also needs to be done to keep the prices reasonable. Yes, some people will always steal, some people are really poor, and some people just refuse to pay an entire day’s wages for a book.