Referendums Galore - 2018 Municipal Elections


In districts where the Aboriginal people are the majority, they are also overwhelmingly christian.


I read the articles. Please point me to the nuclear power related incident listed in those articles that resulted in human death.

Outside of Soviet-era Russia, I only see one. An incident at a Japanese fuel reprocessing plant that resulted in 2 deaths. Zero of the incidents resulted in deaths among the general population.

So how is that claim wrong?


Why shouldn’t SSM be determined by referendum?

Since marriage is a social contract, shouldn’t society be defining it?

In the USA, laws governing relationships have historically been determined by states. Majority of Americans would be living in states where SSM is legal.


As I said, you can’t even keep your story straight. Two deaths, zero deaths, now back to two deaths…

The truth is much grimmer. One of the many lists listed in the list of lists is a list ranking the incidents by death toll.

“But many of those are from medical use of radiation!” True, many of the incidents are. Without counting them, I’d say it looks like 50%. (Medical or non-medical, only incidents with fatalities are on this list.)

The percentage of the deaths that are from medical accidents is not the same, and we’ll never know the numbers for certain because the death tolls of Kyshtym in Soviet Russia and Windscale in Soviet Russia England are disputed, anywhere from dozens to hundreds of deaths (Windscale) or thousands of deaths (Kyshtym).

Again, this does not necessarily mean nuke power is worse overall than x, y, or z power. Plenty of people have died indirectly due to coal power, for example. People die in the mines, and people die from lung cancer etc. All of us probably have shorter lifespans due to coal power in Taiwan, and we don’t even know how much shorter. PM 2.5 is a huge problem, but it’s not the same type of problem as nuke waste – an accident at a coal plant won’t make a vast region uninhabitable and keep it that way long after the regime or corporation responsible has been dissolved, merged, or what have you – so again, you can’t really do apples to apples. :apple: :banana: :doh:

And again, your “Soviet Russia doesn’t count” argument is weak. It’s like saying…

Don’t bother replying with “Oh but Windscale doesn’t count because X, SL-1 doesn’t count because Y, nuclear submarines don’t count because Z…” I don’t have time.

And don’t bother trying to convert me with statistics about bananas. You don’t know what I think are the best and worst sources of power, and I’m not going to tell you. (It’s alien technology, so you wouldn’t understand anyway. :stuck_out_tongue:) If you want to continue debating with others here, please don’t spout utter nonsense.

I wish you a pleasant day. :bowing:


For the same reason that interracial marriage in the US was made legal by Supreme Court decision, it is unconstitutional.

I addition to the above slightly legalistic argument, it is kind of wrong to let the majority decide on the granting(or denying ) to the minority of something that is/should be a human right.


The system of marriage the US inherited from the UK’s common law system never defined marriage as between people of the same race. Same cannot be said of SSM.

Marriage isn’t a right protected by the constitution, so states should determine whether it’s a human right or not.



That’s not how either human rights or the justice system in the us works(although I’m no expert)

  1. My story is absolutely straight. The zero number is for general population. Two is when you include actual plant workers. I thought that was clear.

  2. Thank you for posting a list that makes my point. Take the time to actually look at those accidents one by one. My claim that outside of Soviet-era Russia there have been zero nuclear power plant related deaths in the general population and only two deaths among plant workers is CONFIRMED by that list.

  3. And I disagree. It is fair to exclude Soviet-era Russia because we are not just talking about accidents there. We are talking about systematic failure in safety protocol and regulation…something that the rest of the world has not displayed any issue with. Those Soviet-era incidents occured because an inept government was playing around with a power that was still in its infancy that they clearly had no idea how to handle. 60 years of history outside of that one pocket confirms this without any doubt.


The only constitutional guarantees are life liberty and property


According to the Constitution of your house?


This reminds me of electrical wiring, software routines and standard operating procedures…I wouldn’t want to review or debug any of such :laughing:


I can just imagine looking for the design files from the various contractors on the fourth plant, half of whom have probably gone bust already.


We are in trouble.

Climate change: CO2 emissions rising for first time in four years -


Yes, that’s true. But Aborigines make up a tiny percentage (Wikipedia says 2.3%) of the population, so a majority of a tiny minority isn’t going to sway a vote much. At any rate, the woeful comment under the graphic referred to says that there is a long way to go because places where Christians were present in large number voted against the referendum, but Christians are hardly the place to start as no part of the country voted for the referendum in a majority. You could take Christians completely out of the mix and it wouldn’t have affected the result much. I think we’re just transferring the arguments made in some countries here. I think it would be more interesting to know what non-Christian religious leaders have said publicly about the issue.


There’s a high correlation between higher-education and support for marriage equality.

Referendum 14: Modify civil law to incorporate same-sex marriage

Each dot is a voting district. X-axis is how each district voted for the referendum. Y-axis is the percentage of collage graduates, been married, age median, and income median, in the order of left to right, top to bottom.

It is also interesting that in the age median graph, all the districts with the lowest age median are places with a higher concentration of Aboriginal people.

Also, there’s an outlier strongly supporting marriage equality (just shy of 50% in favor), that’s Dongyin island in Mazu. I find that pretty interesting as a small cluster of outliers across it on the X-axis belong to districts in Kinmen.

As for Referendum 16, which asks to abolish the plan to phase out nuclear power, there’s one significant outlier against it. Guess which district that belongs to?

Aside from Ponso no Tao, there are two other dots away from the cluster that voted against reactivating nuclear power. One is Daren county in Taidong, which is the next site designated to store nuclear waste. The other is Gongliao in New Taipei, which is the location of Nuclear Power Plant 4.


It wasn’t clear, and even working with that distinction, you have nothing to back it up. We will never know how many people in the general population, in England or elsewhere, died due to Windscale.

Wrong again. You’re really not trying very hard. I’m not going to waste my time quoting article after article. Interested readers are once again invited to click on the links.

Anyway, Fukushima happened. Apparently no-one has died from it (yet), but that doesn’t make it safe. If you nuke a city but evacuate the population just in the nick of time, does that mean nuking the city is “safe”? :ponder:

Lucky for Earth, there are no more inept governments! :grinning: :earth_americas: :peace_symbol:

I missed out on the Fukushima land rush – Guy and Andrew snatched it up already! – but maybe I can sell you a plot on my home planet. No humans have ever been eaten there, except for all the ones who don’t count. :yum:


Sorry guys, I’m playing catch-up.

But gay or straight, how can you call it a parade if no-one’s wearing a costume?

People marching in the street wearing ordinary clothes, that’s just a demonstration. Not really a big tourist draw. :idunno:

Condoms in one form or another have been around for millennia.

What, they changed it? I Rip Van Winkled myself again? :doh:

Or is it just that Americans now use the terms property and pursuit of happiness interchangeably? :money_mouth_face: :thinking:


Sure, most people wore regular street clothes. And many others wore basically nothing, drag, sexualized outfits like sailors etc. Guess which photo is more likely to be on the front page for the average Taiwanese who didn’t go to see.

I’m not saying they can’t wear what they want. But I’m saying perhaps that’s not the perspective that will work for Taiwan.


You don’t have to quote article after article to disprove my claim. You have to quote ONE. My claim is that there are TWO human fatalities recorded due to nuclear incidents at nuclear power plants outside of Soviet-era Russia. Those two human fatalities occurred at a Japanese nuclear fuel reprocessing plant in 1999.

That’s my claim. You keep saying it’s wrong. But I have looked at your lists up and down, finding nothing. There was an experimental reactor (not at a power plant) in the 60s that killed 3 people on an army research base (the only 3 people to ever die on American soil due to a nuclear incident). There was an incident that had absolutely nothing to do with radiation or the nuclear part of a plant in Japan in 2004 (a steam pipe not connected with the nuclear reaction exploded). There’s zero evidence that Windscale resulted in any fatalities among the general population or any of the workers. A 2010 study of the workers concluded that there were absolutely no long-term health effects.

So yes, please people, look at that list. Notice that even if you add in all of the Soviet stuff and radiotherapy incidents (has absolutely nothing to do with nuclear power) you still get a number that is less than 200. Compare that with the estimate that in 2010, 13,000 deaths could be attributed to fine-particulate air pollution from coal-fired power plants in the US alone! That’s one year, one country… ( Estimates in China are sometimes quoted in the hundreds of thousands.

No energy source is “safe.” But certain energy sources are safer than others…and nuclear power has a 60 year record of being BY FAR the safest, most efficient source of energy we have at our disposal.


Welcome to Taiwan :slightly_smiling_face: How on earth ?