Reid is right

This week, Senator Harry Reid told the President and the American public that, as long as the US keeps going down the path that it’s on, the war will be lost…

Why is he catching so much sh*t from the Republicans?

Are they really that deeply sunk into denial?
Do they honestly think that everything is hunky-dory?

The analogy of LBJ sending more troops to Vietnam long after it was apparent that the US had lost that war is a valid one, I think.

It’s time to eat some humble pie and accept that the leadership of the US has failed in it’s mission.

A response…from a troop on the ground in Iraq…

[quote] Marine Corporal From A Bunker In Ramadi: “I Got A Message For That Douche Harry Reid”
This Email To Me, Harry, And America, Direct From A Grunt On The Front Lines Of Ramadi, Is Just Hours Old.

Corporal Tyler Rock, 1/6 Charlie Company, on the left, at my old home, Camp Hurricane Point, Ramadi.

A view from OP Horea, “Most Dangerous Spot On Earth”, Downtown Ramadi. I no shit watched several terrorists die, on several different days, on this small strip of asphalt. We also took many IED strikes on it. This photo is from Corporal Rock.

Today, from Corporal Tyler Rock in an outpost in downtown Ramadi. His first sentence is in response to an email from me:

“yeah i know how you feel. its going to be very weird leaving this place and going back to america. weve been here for almost an entire year and have lived in the center of it the whole time. its crazy that when we got here it was so hectic and now its calmed down so much. so it was awesome to be able to see that turn out.

yeah news worth reporting…. well ramadi was once dubbed by everyone as the worst city in the world. but we have done such a great job here that all the families in the area have worked with us on driving out the insurgency and that we work directly with the IA and the IP’s. the city has been cleaned up so well that the IP’s do most of the patrols now and we go out with them to hand out candy and toys to the children. you can tell that the people want us here to protect them from the thugs and gangs (insurgents). granted they would rather have peace and quit but they know that if we arent here they will be thrown around by the insurgents. a good example is this one mission we did. long story short we got blown up in multiple buildings and had to run into a families house. i spent my christmas holidays covered in ash from the mortar fire and the IED’s, sleeping under a dirty rug i found in the house. everyone was sleeping way to close for comfort just to stay warm. anyways. a family was there and they obviously didnt want us there. atleast at first. the daughters were very sick so our corpsman treated them. they didnt have electricity so we got them a generator for power, they were cold so we got them gas heaters, we got them food and water and then we gave them $500. by the end of the week long visit with them we were drinking tea with them. when we left we cleaned their house better than it was when we got there. i even have pictures with the family. they told us that they liked marines and they would help us as much as they could and they gave us some information on the insurgents in the area. we ended up catching a HUGE target down the road from there house because of it.

Part Of A Weapons Cache Seized Recently In Fields Next To What Used To Be An Insurgent Claimed Hospital. Thanks To 1/6, The Insurgents Don’t Claim It Anymore. Zarqawi Had Reportedly Been Treated There.

yeah and i got a qoute for that douche harry reid. these families need us here. obviously he has never been in iraq. or atleast the area worth seeing. the parts where insurgency is rampant and the buildings are blown to pieces. we need to stay here and help rebuild. if iraq didnt want us here then why do we have IP’s voluntering everyday to rebuild their cities. and working directly with us too. same with the IA’s. it sucks that iraqi’s have more patriotism for a country that has turned to complete shit more than the people in america who drink starbucks everyday. we could leave this place and say we are sorry to the terrorists. and then we could wait for 3,000 more american civilians to die before we say “hey thats not nice” again. and the sad thing is after we WIN this war. people like him will say he was there for us the whole time.
and for messages back home. i have a wife back home who is going through a tough time. i just cant wait to be back home and see everyone. haha and i cant wait to go back home and get some starbucks. i love it when those people serve me. hahaha”
Pat Dollard Blog[/quote]

Just the facts from the boots on the ground…in the real wprld.

I feel sorry that this great man’s patriotism was turned to shit by George Bush. Nothing is more revolting than his exploitation of good men like this.

Too bad Iraq had nothing to with 9-11, as everyone knows. You can find similar stuff from Germany in March of 1945 or October of 1918, or the South from April of 1865. I’m sure after Yorktown there were zillions of Brit soldiers writing home about the great victory just around the corner.

The signs are obvious. The whole world can read them. Except, of course, the 30% of Americans who still think pursuing defeat is a really good idea. Their refusal to admit failure reminds of Japan in the summer of 1945…

Gee…Vorkosigan still hates US President George W. Bush…alert the media.

Why yes, I do hate Bush. Nearly all the rational people in the world do too. Meanwhile, it’s the summer of 1945 and you are still complaining that Japan can win the war, if only the defeatists would stop talking about Midway and Guadalcanal and Saipan and Okinawa and Iwo Jima and the Philippines…

Vorkosigan, I believe your Germany and Japan 1945 analogies are flawed. By 1946, there was no doubt among the Germans or Japanese that they’d been defeated, but these characters will be denying defeat and wailing about the liberal stab in the back for years, and years… It’s definitely 1918.

That’s a dirty liberul lie and you know it.

I have it from the highest authority (and Donald Rumsfeld) that Nazi Werewolf cells were running an insurgency in Germany well after 1945.

Or why do you think Captain America had to fight the Red Skull and Hydra up to this day? Or why the B.P.R.D. and Hellboy had to fight Hitler himself till 1949?

yup, let’s just stay in Iraq and keep building walls around all the neighborhoods…

we all know how well segregation has worked in the past.

another brilliant solution brought to you by the masterminds of the Bush inner-circle.

Ahh the joy…another thread chock full of well reasoned posts and on topic discussion.

Is US President George W. Bush also to blame for the lack of fundamental reasoning and discussion abilities exhibited by the “educated” members of the esteemed opposition?

Pardon the above comment…I did that which I personally disdain when I see it done by others…the posting questions rather than discussion/information points. Excuse the faux pas…will ya’s?

Don’t feel bad. You’ve blundered innocently into the time-honored Socratic Method:

"Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate) is a dialectic method of inquiry, largely applied to the examination of key moral concepts and first described by Plato in the Socratic Dialogues. For this, Socrates is customarily regarded as the father and fountainhead for western ethics or moral philosophy.

It is a form of philosophical inquiry. It typically involves two speakers at any one time, with one leading the discussion and the other agreeing to certain assumptions put forward for his acceptance or rejection. The method is credited to Socrates, who began to engage in such discussion with his fellow Athenians after a visit to the Oracle of Delphi.

“A Socratic Dialogue can happen at any time between [two people] when they seek to answer a question [about something] answerable by their own effort of reflection and thinking [starting] from the concrete [asking] all sorts of questions [until] the details of the example are fleshed out [as] a kind of platform for reaching more general judgments” [1].

The practice involves asking a series of questions surrounding a central issue, and answering questions of the others involved. Generally this involves the defense of one point of view against another and is oppositional. The best way to ‘win’ is to make the opponent contradict themselves in some way that proves the inquirer’s own point.

Plato famously formalized the Socratic Elenctic style in prose — presenting Socrates as the curious questioner of some prominent Athenian interlocutor — in some of his early dialogues, such as Euthyphro or Ion, and the method is most commonly found within the so-called “Socratic dialogues”, which generally portray Socrates engaging in the method and questioning his fellow citizens about moral and epistemological issues.

The term Socratic Questioning is used to describe the kind of questioning, with which an original question was responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in the light of the progress of the discourse."
– Wikipedia

Yep, just like this one:

Yep, just like this one:

And you chime in and provide another example…LOL

Having just finished reading Doris Kearns Goodwin’s excellent “Team of Rivals” about President Lincoln’s cabinet, I figure that if the Republicans cared so much about winning this war, they would have taken a few hints from a successful leader:

  1. Bridge gaps and unify the society – knowing that unity would be important, Lincoln filled his cabinet with the best, smartest people he could find from a wide range of backgrounds. Throughout his political life, he had always moved fast to heal potential wounds to approach and congratulate those who had beaten him in political contests and to reach a hand out to those whom he had beaten.

  2. Create opportunities to listen to a spectrum of opinions – Lincoln made it clear that he made the final decision on policy matters but he was careful to listen and could be persuaded to change his mind. He approached people, thought things through, and served as ultimate arbiter of options.

  3. Stay focused – Lincoln was elected on a platform aimed at curbing the spread of slavery into new territories and then forced to focus on keeping the Union together. He quickly gave the incorruptible Stanton control over much of the war, knowing full well that personnel and spending had to be clean. While some mistakes were made in procurement at the start of the Civil War by Stanton’s predecessor Cameron, the appearance and actuality of propriety was followed thereafter. A modern-day Lincoln would not have used 9-11 as an excuse to pass tax cuts for billionaire buddies, pile on no-bid contracts to crony corporations, sought to advance bizarre social policies via “Terry’s Law”, etc.

  4. Understand the American people – With the retention of border slave states in the Union a key issue (Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri, etc.) he gauged the American society expertly to introduce the Emancipation Proclamation (giving freedom to slaves in Confederate states) in a way that was aimed at undermining the Confederacy at just the right time … and then to pass the 13th Amendment to abolish slavery entirely at the right time when abolition enjoyed wide support. Lincoln prepared the American people for the abolition of slavery slowly and carefully as the Republican coalition that elected him included many conservatives who did not support abolition at the start of the war if it meant provoking the South. Essentially, Lincoln worked to move progressive policies forward at a time when the American people would understand, accept and support them. A modern-day Lincoln would have had nothing to do with “Terry’s Law”.

  5. Support the troops in battle with the best we have – Lincoln’s Secretary of Treasury, Salmon Chase, introduced paper currency (“greenbacks”) and did an excellent job with the bonds essential for financing the war. Despite a couple of early missteps, Union troops went into battle with top-notch equipment, food, warm uniforms, rail networks, etc. This made all the difference when they came up against barefoot rebels trying to get by on a handful of coarse corn meal per day. I think Lincoln would be aghast if he saw we were 4 years in on a war with hillbilly-armored humvees and no civilian commitment to giving our troops the best we can. Given Lincoln’s commitment to wounded troops and the Sanitary Commission, one gets the sense that the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco would not have happened on his watch.

If a modern-day Lincoln were president today, I’m pretty sure we would not be in Iraq because he would have listened to smart people. If we had somehow invaded Iraq anyway, we would at least have handled the invasion intelligently – again by virtue of the president actually listening to ideas and planning instead of running into Iraq blindly.

But instead we’ve got Bush – a dummy who invaded the wrong country for the wrong reasons, who has used the war to enrich his cronies, and who has consistently supported the efforts to cut/freeze budgets for the treatment of our mounting number of wounded troops. If Bush can’t even 1) work out a strategy to win in Iraq; or 2) work something out with Reid or the American people, then I don’t think bleeding out our military in Iraq using tired strategies is going to be good for the nation. Extending this war another 3 years at this point is only good for the Halliburtons of this war.

For someone that made such a comment himself first you really shouldn’t mind, but then you obviously take issue when others do.
Makes your statement just so hypocritical, and there is IMO nothing wrong with calling you on it. Have a nice day.

It’s hard to say who the bigger fool is, George Bush for getting us trapped in the mother of all quagmires or Harry Reid for not realizing the dangerous power vacuum we’ve created.

Yes, a quagmire just like Korea, Japan, Germany and Turkey. Soon our reign of peace and civilization will bring about 1,000 years of happiness.

You forgot more recent “events”, like Vietnam and Afghanistan.

“Today, the old Reich and it’s finest leader enter Valhalla. At the same time, we mark the beginning of a new era. A time of peace and prosperity await us. The thousand year Reich has began. Sieg Heil!”
– A. Hitler

For someone that made such a comment himself first you really shouldn’t mind, but then you obviously take issue when others do.
Makes your statement just so hypocritical, and there is IMO nothing wrong with calling you on it. Have a nice day.[/quote]rascal -
Try reading the thread…consider the order of posts. There…that blows your comments into garbage can…where they belong.
Now stop stalking me and post on topic and stop the troll bait comments on threads I post.
I see and understand that english not your primary language, but please try to respond to the topics and stop the snide comments about the poster.

What’s Reids plan to deal with Iraq beyond pulling all the troops out?

Not to be flippant, but pulling out the troops is the easy bit